01-07-2008, 01:07 PM | #31 |
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I understand you practical viewpoint. I just think that you should not support secret or proprietary format by using them if you can aviod it. That might put some pressure on companies to release details about their format.
And people putting books on MobilRead should definitely avoid to use the high compression format. |
01-07-2008, 01:12 PM | #32 | |
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01-07-2008, 01:27 PM | #33 |
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I think tompe is talking about files created with high compression not being able to be 'unpacked' or otherwise manipulated by his Mobiperl scripts. Since a lot of people (I am one) like to manipulate the metadata after we download a file, any file for distribution should be created using normal compression.
I must admit not really getting the issue anyway - these files are tiny. Hard drive space is about as cheap as it gets, and books are tiny. My Kindle has about 180 MB of free on-board memory and a 2GB SD card, and it holds approx 2200 books. Given that the files are small, and the fact that many people like to manipulate the metadata for viewing on their ebooks readers, I would imagine that normal compression is optimal. You could always zip the files for storage if it's much of an issue. Jiiri |
01-07-2008, 02:05 PM | #34 | |
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My device is a Tapwave Zodiac 2, which is a PalmOS PDA. It has two SD card slots, and a 2GB card in each. My main ebook reader is Plucker, and I create Plucker files using the high compression option, which uses a Palm port of Zlib (supplied with Plucker) to decompress. I have about 3,200 Plucker volumes on the first SD card, occupying about 1.5 GB. If I used standard "doc" compression, I'd have to either remove books, spread the Plucker library over more than one card, or switch to a 4GB card. (The first card holds installed applications that live on the card and a variety of other things besides Plucker files.) My Mobi files are on the second card, which is mostly occupied by videos played with TCPMP. There isn't a lot of free space there, either. 4GB cards are in my future, but not until I don't have another option. If I can use high compression to save space, I do so. And as it is, I'm lucky. The Zodiac takes 2GB cards out of the box, and the installation of a FAT32 driver ripped from a LifeDrive lets it handle 4GB cards. (It does not handle SDHC cards, so higher capacities aren't possible.) There are people readign ebooks on older Palm devices that don't handle cards larger than 1GB, and people running things like Sony Clies which use Memory Sticks with a maximum capacity of 128MB. Guess how enthusiastic they are about files larger than they have to be? Yes, I'm a pack rat. I like to have my entire electronic library on my device, and not have to select a subset because there isn't room for everything. My inclination is to create the smallest ebook file supported by the reader, for benefit of folks who feel the same way and may have less available space to hold things. ______ Dennis |
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01-07-2008, 02:25 PM | #35 |
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That makes sense. My apologies if my post in any way sounded other than constructive.
The problem only arises if you do a lot of work on a book, say, from PG, and want to share your work with other people on these forums. In that case, since you have the source files, you can create a normal compression version for public consumption and a high compression one for yourself. I, of course, have no problem at all with anyone saving their own files however they like. If I understand these posts correctly, the only problem is that tompe's superb MobiPerl scripts won't work with high compression files. At this point it seems that something has to give - either use normal compression, or don't have access to tompe's MobiPerl tools, I guess. And I can relate - I'm a pack-rat myself. Jiiri |
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01-07-2008, 03:07 PM | #36 | ||||
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Most folks just want to read Mobi titles, hence my original question about whether the high compression option was known to work on all platforms that handled Mobi files. The number who want to manipulate them with MobiPerl will be a much smaller number, and the sorts of things they might want to do may be corrections of the "Yeah, you're right. It should have been like that to begin with. I'll create and post a corrected edition." once I'm aware of the problem. For that matter, I'd have no problem with providing my source files for people to create their own versions. Quote:
I'm waiting to hear if documentation for the high compression algorithm exists. I suspect not. They state on their forums that they can't use standard zip compression because they need to be able to start uncompressing at any point in the file, and zip requires starting from the beginning, so they appear to have a complex algorithm that takes a long time to create a compressed file. (One poster talked about creating a dictionary where it took 24 hours to create the High Compression file.) My limited tests here indicate it decompresses about as quickly as Standard compression, so whatever they are doing is asymmetric. Quote:
______ Dennis |
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01-07-2008, 04:44 PM | #37 | |
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But my objection is more philosophocal or ideological. I think it is bad of companies to use secret formats but i assume they feel they have to do it. But there is no reason to use a secret format for a file you distribute publicly. That is like just distributing binaries for programs and not distribute the source code which I also do not like. But I assume if there is a future demand to unpack these files somebody will figure out the compression algorithm. |
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01-07-2008, 04:55 PM | #38 |
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FBReader (at least my Debian Unstable version) cannot read files generated with high compression (-c2).
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01-07-2008, 06:42 PM | #39 |
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I just don't feel obligated to provide you with something you can take apart, nor do I think anyone else is obligated to do so. There's nothing wrong with doing so, but at the same time, it's not obligatory.
Instead of complaining you can't take it apart, maybe you could have the attitude of being thankful for what someone did create and share. |
01-07-2008, 07:11 PM | #40 | |||
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For titles uploaded here, I'd start by posting a bug report to the original creator. The folks creating Mobi content all seem to be quite receptive, and upload newer versions of titles as errors are pointed out and as they learn how to make better crafted Mobi titles. Quote:
And a fair amount of stuff is proprietary, like it or not. For instance, you post MobiPerl files as RAR archives. While an assortment of tools can extract them, as far as I know, only the closed source and commercial RAR and WinRAR products can create them. (If there is an open source product that creates RAR archives, I'd be delighted to hear about it.) Why not use something like 7zip, which is open source? Quote:
______ Dennis |
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01-07-2008, 07:26 PM | #41 | |
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While I prefer Plucker for my own use, Plucker is largely PalmOS specific. (There is a product called Vade Mecum that reads Plucker files on PocketPCs, and FBReader reads Plucker files, too.) I'm experimenting with MobiPocket because it seems to be the most broadly supported format. If I'm going to create ebooks for others to read, I want to make them available to the widest possible audience. ______ Dennis |
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01-07-2008, 07:46 PM | #42 | ||||
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01-07-2008, 07:56 PM | #43 | |
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I do prefer to be able to re-format some things, and I said so in polite, friendly terms. This response is a little excessive for the discussion we're having, in my opinion, and is a little upsetting - I feel like the tone of the thread has been constructive. Responding in harsh tones is a great way to discourage new members like myself from posting their thoughts. Jiiri |
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01-07-2008, 08:31 PM | #44 | |||
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There is if you would like to fix something...
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There are files posted to MobileRead now that could be considered duplications of effort. Look at some of the files HarryT has been releasing, where he has put substantial effort into proofing and correcting the source text to produce a more accurate version. It's probably faster and simpler to create a whole new release than to try to correct and existing one in such a case. Quote:
Phil countered by creating PKZip, with a completely different archive format. He explicitly dedicated the Zip format to the public domain, so anyone could create software to create and manipulate Zip files, and many folks have done so. Open source products called zip and unzip have been available for Unix/Linux/BSD for years. I'm startled you just discovered you could create zip files under Linux. Quote:
______ Dennis |
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01-07-2008, 09:37 PM | #45 | ||||
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And if you are proofing a text it must be better to start with a version you have proofed three times already then start from scratch. Quote:
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