Crowd-sourced translations?

chaley · 06-17-2014, 04:53 PM

Hello all,

I am preparing to start the next CC development cycle, and a question has arisen. We have received several requests to translate CC. Some people have suggested crowd-sourced translation, and some have been offers to provide translations for payment.

The situation is:

We cannot afford to pay for translations from CC's revenue stream, so that route is out.
We cannot even give copies of CC to translators because Google Play requires that the produce be sold at the public price. The only thing we can offer a translator is a public thank you.
It will take a fair amount of work even to prepare for translatability.
We will need to choose a tool and a testing method, neither of which exist today.
There is no way we can evaluate the quality or correctness of most translations. I am not convinced that this is a serious problem, but it could be.

Give the above, crowd-sourcing is really the only possibility we can consider.

My question: given the constraints, is there enough interest in doing translations to justify the non-trivial amount of work to prepare for them? Are any of you people out there willing and able to do translations?

FYI: the work in preparing for translations is going through the app and finding all text, then analyzing that text for linguistic traps such as words expressing quantity, present and past tense, and word order. I am talking about things like "read" which in English is both past and present tense, words like "series" which is both singular and plural, adjective/adverb order such as "blue train" in English but "train bleu" in French, and verb number such as "I read", "He reads", and "they read" in English but something rather different in other languages. I have no idea what preparing for translation to a right-to-left language would entail.

Gunnerp245 · 06-19-2014, 06:33 AM

Is CC built to allow addition of plug-ins like calibre.

chaley · 06-19-2014, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnerp245

Is CC built to allow addition of plug-ins like calibre.

Nope.

What do you see a plugin doing? For some kinds of add-on tasks we could imagine using an Android media provider or a service provider. However, if you are thinking of plugins that modify CC's database or user interface, that isn't going to happen.

Ackis · 07-11-2014, 11:43 AM

I've had to deal with localizations in the past... can you elaborate on what you mean by the amount of work to support them? Do you mean internat to CC, or getting a system to allow people to submit translations?

chaley · 07-11-2014, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ackis

I've had to deal with localizations in the past... can you elaborate on what you mean by the amount of work to support them? Do you mean internat to CC, or getting a system to allow people to submit translations?

All of the above.

In CC we need to be sure that a) all translatable strings are in resources, b) all implicit word position and orders are made explicit, c) All singular and plural items are separated, especially when the English word is uncountable (e.g., series), d) that we do the same thing for words like "read" that in English are both present and past tense, and e) that the context of a string can be determined somehow. I am leaving aside the issue of RtL languages, as I have no idea what attempting one of those would entail. This will be an iterative process as we discover things we didn't do properly.

Next we need a tool that supports android string XML files and where people can do translations with a minimum of fuss. Perhaps something like Akuna or OneSky. We would need to set up the tool and set up the privilege system.

We need a way to test/verify the translations. I don't think it would happen, but it is very possible for a translator to drop "easter eggs" into the string, perhaps malicious, perhaps simply amusing.

Finally, and perhaps the most difficult, we need a way for translators to see their work in CC itself. This has to be a relatively quick process, but it must also be secure from our point of view. We can't construct unlicensed APK files or the pirates will have a field day, and we can't open our source for the same reason.

PremaEbooks · 07-12-2014, 08:32 AM

Hi Chaley!

As I told you on a PM, I offer myself to translate from english to spanish. I have a degree in english, and I have translated several manuals.
I don't care about the money. I think I told you about my plans with T68. But in my country a lot of users like Calibre, and would be very pleased to have CC in spanish.
Just a simple mention on who did the translation would be great in my case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just starting with Android development, but:
The same way you have different resources for every screen avaible in the market, based on the dpi, or different layouts based on landscape or portrait, you have different XML files for each language.
If you can hand me that XML I would make a translation of every sentence or single word based on what I see in the app when using it.
And, If I'm right, you can always correct that "wrong translation" and update it on the next version of CC. Am I right?

I used a little bit Eclipse, but now I'm starting to "play" with Android Studio.

chaley · 07-13-2014, 04:22 PM

@PremaEbooks: we am not ignoring you. Instead we are looking at what we can do. In addition I am looking at setting up CC so it can be translated without lots of extra work.

Yes, translating an android application is done by translating the string resource file. However, that assumes that all of the strings are in the file (not guaranteed), and that the context of the strings is clear enough (also not guaranteed). For example, you might see the string "read %d books". Is that "read" present tense, imperative tense, or past tense? In English it can be any of the three.

As for updates, yes, corrections can wait for the next release, but that might take months. We need a better way for a translator to see the translations in situ. We are looking at releasing a free "trial version" of CC, and this might be the way to go for testing translations.

More as soon as we know it ...

PremaEbooks · 07-13-2014, 05:06 PM

@chaley

Not in a hurry. Just wanted to make it "public" that you can count on me to translate it into spanish.
Of course, you (and your team) know better than I do the best way to make it "less painful".
As soon as you know how, send me a PM.

Thank you. I know is not easy to develope an app.

chaley · 10-02-2014, 06:28 AM

We have set up the translation system for CC using OneSky. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=247294 for details.

PremaEbooks · 10-02-2014, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaley

We have set up the translation system for CC using OneSky. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=247294 for details.

Me and another user have started with Spanish translation

chaley · 10-02-2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PremaEbooks

Me and another user have started with Spanish translation

Excellent! Thank you.

If you have any questions, either post them in the sticky thread https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=247294 or (perhaps better) put them as comments on the phrase in OneSky. You add a comment by clicking on the gear above the phrase. I get notified about comments so I should be able respond reasonably quickly.

Many of the phrases do not exist in V3.4.4, which is why I made the demo version of V3.4.4j available via the link in post 1 of the sticky thread mentioned above.

Terisa de morgan · 10-02-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PremaEbooks

Me and another user have started with Spanish translation

Slow day at work

PremaEbooks · 10-03-2014, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaley

Excellent! Thank you.

If you have any questions, either post them in the sticky thread https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=247294 or (perhaps better) put them as comments on the phrase in OneSky. You add a comment by clicking on the gear above the phrase. I get notified about comments so I should be able respond reasonably quickly.

Many of the phrases do not exist in V3.4.4, which is why I made the demo version of V3.4.4j available via the link in post 1 of the sticky thread mentioned above.

Sure!
Right now I only had one issue with the length in one of the translations, but it only takes a moment to think of another way to "say" the same in less words.

About the demo. I will test it as soon as we finish the first translation and you have the time to build a new compilation.
I'm a little "out of time" at the moment so maybe it will take a week. But Terisa is helping too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Slow day at work

chaley · 10-03-2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PremaEbooks

About the demo. I will test it as soon as we finish the first translation and you have the time to build a new compilation.
I'm a little "out of time" at the moment so maybe it will take a week. But Terisa is helping too

I was testing some changes and -voila- I am seeing Spanish!

I added a setting to CC to change its language to something other than the device setting. This will permit you to change between Spanish, English, and French (and others once they come along) if you want to see how another language looks.

I also ensured that we keep the possibility of country variants for languages, although I will be surprised if we actually see one of these.

PremaEbooks · 10-03-2014, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaley

I was testing some changes and -voila- I am seeing Spanish!

I added a setting to CC to change its language to something other than the device setting. This will permit you to change between Spanish, English, and French (and others once they come along) if you want to see how another language looks.

I also ensured that we keep the possibility of country variants for languages, although I will be surprised if we actually see one of these.

Yeah... whenever I have a second free I try to fill another blank

06-17-2014, 04:53 PM	#1
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	Crowd-sourced translations? Hello all, I am preparing to start the next CC development cycle, and a question has arisen. We have received several requests to translate CC. Some people have suggested crowd-sourced translation, and some have been offers to provide translations for payment. The situation is: We cannot afford to pay for translations from CC's revenue stream, so that route is out. We cannot even give copies of CC to translators because Google Play requires that the produce be sold at the public price. The only thing we can offer a translator is a public thank you. It will take a fair amount of work even to prepare for translatability. We will need to choose a tool and a testing method, neither of which exist today. There is no way we can evaluate the quality or correctness of most translations. I am not convinced that this is a serious problem, but it could be. Give the above, crowd-sourcing is really the only possibility we can consider. My question: given the constraints, is there enough interest in doing translations to justify the non-trivial amount of work to prepare for them? Are any of you people out there willing and able to do translations? FYI: the work in preparing for translations is going through the app and finding all text, then analyzing that text for linguistic traps such as words expressing quantity, present and past tense, and word order. I am talking about things like "read" which in English is both past and present tense, words like "series" which is both singular and plural, adjective/adverb order such as "blue train" in English but "train bleu" in French, and verb number such as "I read", "He reads", and "they read" in English but something rather different in other languages. I have no idea what preparing for translation to a right-to-left language would entail.

07-12-2014, 08:32 AM	#6
PremaEbooks Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 8504 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Spain Device: Kindle(all), Nook, Sony, Onyx Boox, iPad 2	Hi Chaley! As I told you on a PM, I offer myself to translate from english to spanish. I have a degree in english, and I have translated several manuals. I don't care about the money. I think I told you about my plans with T68. But in my country a lot of users like Calibre, and would be very pleased to have CC in spanish. Just a simple mention on who did the translation would be great in my case. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just starting with Android development, but: The same way you have different resources for every screen avaible in the market, based on the dpi, or different layouts based on landscape or portrait, you have different XML files for each language. If you can hand me that XML I would make a translation of every sentence or single word based on what I see in the app when using it. And, If I'm right, you can always correct that "wrong translation" and update it on the next version of CC. Am I right? I used a little bit Eclipse, but now I'm starting to "play" with Android Studio. Last edited by PremaEbooks; 07-12-2014 at 12:27 PM. Reason: an unnecessary "e" :)

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06-19-2014, 06:33 AM	#2
Gunnerp245 Gadget Freak Posts: 1,169 Karma: 1043832 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: US Device: EE, Note 8	Is CC built to allow addition of plug-ins like calibre.

07-11-2014, 11:43 AM	#4
Ackis Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Canada Device: Galaxy Tab 2 10.1, iPad 2	I've had to deal with localizations in the past... can you elaborate on what you mean by the amount of work to support them? Do you mean internat to CC, or getting a system to allow people to submit translations?

07-13-2014, 04:22 PM	#7
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	@PremaEbooks: we am not ignoring you. Instead we are looking at what we can do. In addition I am looking at setting up CC so it can be translated without lots of extra work. Yes, translating an android application is done by translating the string resource file. However, that assumes that all of the strings are in the file (not guaranteed), and that the context of the strings is clear enough (also not guaranteed). For example, you might see the string "read %d books". Is that "read" present tense, imperative tense, or past tense? In English it can be any of the three. As for updates, yes, corrections can wait for the next release, but that might take months. We need a better way for a translator to see the translations in situ. We are looking at releasing a free "trial version" of CC, and this might be the way to go for testing translations. More as soon as we know it ...

07-13-2014, 05:06 PM	#8
PremaEbooks Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 8504 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Spain Device: Kindle(all), Nook, Sony, Onyx Boox, iPad 2	@chaley Not in a hurry. Just wanted to make it "public" that you can count on me to translate it into spanish. Of course, you (and your team) know better than I do the best way to make it "less painful". As soon as you know how, send me a PM. Thank you. I know is not easy to develope an app.

10-02-2014, 06:28 AM	#9
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	We have set up the translation system for CC using OneSky. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=247294 for details.

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