Literary The MR Literary Club • Welcome, Information & General Discussion

[sun surfer]

All right, it looks like we’ll be exploring The Southern Hemisphere for June!

[Bookworm_Girl]

Sounds good!

[sun surfer]

It's time for choosing July's topic!

All ideas are appreciated; just post! We're very flexible with our monthly topic; it can be a topic, theme, category or whatever else. This can also be collaborative so any little kernel of an idea or direction is great.

[sun surfer]

Here are two possibilities I'd posted last month that seem like they could be interesting for July:

-Distancing. Another tongue in cheek title referencing the current world, but this could refer to something about people or a person being apart from each other or another for whatever reason, or maybe people slowly drifting apart, or whatever take on the word you may come up with.

-Everything Old Is New Again. I like the title, but I’m not really sure exactly where this one would go, so it’s very open to interpretation. Maybe an old book that somehow seems very relevant, current or predictive of the future. Or perhaps a new book that somehow references another older book or something else old. Or it could be plot-specific, having something old be somehow new again. Or books with ‘old’ or ‘new’ in the title. There’s a lot to play with here.


Do either of those tickle any fancies? Or either of the others? Or any other topic ideas?

[sun surfer]

We could also do something related to the solstices since one just occurred, and midsummer and midwinter. It could be anything with those words, or a plot concerning that time of year which would be later June or later December, or anything to do with days being very long or very short.

I'm up for whatever though!

[AnotherCat]

"Distancing" sounds fine to me but I am open to anything else.

Pretty relevant to us as our main advantage in the current pandemic is that we have around 1,500 miles of sea as a moat between us and the next nearest country - oh, and there are not very many of us so it is often hard to find someone to get closer than 2 meters too in any event .

[Bookworm_Girl]

I don’t have a preference. Distancing is ok with me.

[sun surfer]

All right, Distancing it is! Should be interesting.

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Pretty relevant to us as our main advantage in the current pandemic is that we have around 1,500 miles of sea as a moat between us and the next nearest country - oh, and there are not very many of us so it is often hard to find someone to get closer than 2 meters too in any event .

I just read the part today in Owls Do Cry where someone says something like that living in (south) New Zealand is like living by the edge with only Antarctica and darkness on the other side. They were referencing how much lighter and sunnier the north of NZ felt but it made me wonder how many people living anywhere in New Zealand do feel like they're living on the edge of the world.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

...I just read the part today in Owls Do Cry where someone says something like that living in (south) New Zealand is like living by the edge with only Antarctica and darkness on the other side. They were referencing how much lighter and sunnier the north of NZ felt but it made me wonder how many people living anywhere in New Zealand do feel like they're living on the edge of the world.

It can certainly feel very remote at the site near Bluff at the bottom of South Island looking out over Foveaux Strait and where there is (I assume it is still there) a post with signs pointing to various places around the globe and the distances to them. I think many don't have a good enough feeling for geography to sense a physical isolation but many will have an impression from flying to our nearest neighbor Australia (close to 4 hours) and fewer the 12 hours to Los Angeles. But the distances are not something most would think about from day to day and with shipping and air travel/freight don't have any day to day impact these days; courier can be as little as a couple of days from anywhere and I once received a letter from Germany the day after its postmarked date and it had my incorrect address on it.

Regarding "lighter and sunnier". Oamaru is almost exactly 45 degrees south (as I mentioned elsewhere we lived close to there for a short while and is easy to remember because quite a few things there with names including "45 South") so about the same opposite latitude to Portland, Oregon or Ottawa, for example. Auckland is around 37 degrees south so roughly the same as San Francisco or Richmond, Virginia.

Overall the temperature difference between Oamaru and Auckland say is much closer to that between San Francisco and northern Oregon than the same latitude comparison on the USA east coast (Washington DC is pretty close to the opposite latitude of Auckland's and while it snows in Washington DC - I have been there in late November with snow starting to fall and lie - it would be an adventure if it ever snowed in Auckland.

Auckland's temperatures are pretty similar to San Francisco and I suspect that Oamaru's temperatures are pretty similar to coastal northern Oregon except no snow (maybe the occasional flurry melting as hits the ground); but NZ's climate is very maritime, being so narrow and facing the wide Tasman Sea across which most weather comes so the NZ locations likely not have the same maximum summer highs or lowest winter lows. For example, where we are (a little north of Wellington on the west coast of North Island right on the coast) a quite cold winter's day would be around 9 or 10C (50F) but normally a few degrees warmer, and a warm summers day around 23 to 25C (around 75F), so a comparatively low temperature spread between seasons compared to that on continents. That said, it can occasionally get very cold in central and northern Otago, that being inland from Oamaru, but also tends to get higher highs although temperatures of 30C (86F) and a little above are not very frequent anywhere in NZ.

So while those in the north like to claim it is much warmer than further south, the difference (especially compared to the differences encountered on continents without the maritime influence) are not really that great. NZ is currently just coming out of a 2 day cold patch and today Auckland's forecast high is 13C (55F) and Timaru's, slightly north of Oamaru, is forecast as 9C (48F). We, very, very roughly half way in between have 12C (54F) as the forecast high for today. Timaru and inland Otago have almost exactly the same average sunshine hours per year as Auckland and less than half Auckland's rainfall, the towns with the highest sunshine hours are in South Island. Of course, those temperature differences North to South can vary one way or the other according to the day, but these differences would be close to being typical I would think.

There is, of course a difference in daylight hours between north and south due to the latitude difference, but likely averages out given south has longer days in the summer and shorter days in winter - far south is roughly an hour longer daylight in mid summer compared to Auckland and an hour shorter in winter.

So, after all that gabbing (I have had some practice briefing foreign job applicants ) I think the book's comment about the north being much sunnier and lighter perhaps represents a popular view but likely not one shared by those who have the actual experience of living in both (excepting, central Otago can occasionally be very cold).

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

It can certainly feel very remote at the site near Bluff at the bottom of South Island looking out over Foveaux Strait and where there is (I assume it is still there) a post with signs pointing to various places around the globe and the distances to them. I think many don't have a good enough feeling for geography to sense a physical isolation but many will have an impression from flying to our nearest neighbor Australia (close to 4 hours) and fewer the 12 hours to Los Angeles. But the distances are not something most would think about from day to day and with shipping and air travel/freight don't have any day to day impact these days; courier can be as little as a couple of days from anywhere and I once received a letter from Germany the day after its postmarked date and it had my incorrect address on it.

Regarding "lighter and sunnier". Oamaru is almost exactly 45 degrees south (as I mentioned elsewhere we lived close to there for a short while and is easy to remember because quite a few things there with names including "45 South") so about the same opposite latitude to Portland, Oregon or Ottawa, for example. Auckland is around 37 degrees south so roughly the same as San Francisco or Richmond, Virginia.

Overall the temperature difference between Oamaru and Auckland say is much closer to that between San Francisco and northern Oregon than the same latitude comparison on the USA east coast (Washington DC is pretty close to the opposite latitude of Auckland's and while it snows in Washington DC - I have been there in late November with snow starting to fall and lie - it would be an adventure if it ever snowed in Auckland.

Auckland's temperatures are pretty similar to San Francisco and I suspect that Oamaru's temperatures are pretty similar to coastal northern Oregon except no snow (maybe the occasional flurry melting as hits the ground); but NZ's climate is very maritime, being so narrow and facing the wide Tasman Sea across which most weather comes so the NZ locations likely not have the same maximum summer highs or lowest winter lows. For example, where we are (a little north of Wellington on the west coast of North Island right on the coast) a quite cold winter's day would be around 9 or 10C (50F) but normally a few degrees warmer, and a warm summers day around 23 to 25C (around 75F), so a comparatively low temperature spread between seasons compared to that on continents. That said, it can occasionally get very cold in central and northern Otago, that being inland from Oamaru, but also tends to get higher highs although temperatures of 30C (86F) and a little above are not very frequent anywhere in NZ.

So while those in the north like to claim it is much warmer than further south, the difference (especially compared to the differences encountered on continents without the maritime influence) are not really that great. NZ is currently just coming out of a 2 day cold patch and today Auckland's forecast high is 13C (55F) and Timaru's, slightly north of Oamaru, is forecast as 9C (48F). We, very, very roughly half way in between have 12C (54F) as the forecast high for today. Timaru and inland Otago have almost exactly the same average sunshine hours per year as Auckland and less than half Auckland's rainfall, the towns with the highest sunshine hours are in South Island. Of course, those temperature differences North to South can vary one way or the other according to the day, but these differences would be close to being typical I would think.

There is, of course a difference in daylight hours between north and south due to the latitude difference, but likely averages out given south has longer days in the summer and shorter days in winter - far south is roughly an hour longer daylight in mid summer compared to Auckland and an hour shorter in winter.

So, after all that gabbing (I have had some practice briefing foreign job applicants ) I think the book's comment about the north being much sunnier and lighter perhaps represents a popular view but likely not one shared by those who have the actual experience of living in both (excepting, central Otago can occasionally be very cold).

Very interesting, thanks! I had imagined most of New Zealand as being slightly colder than what you've described, and actually with more snow. Now I know that's not so much the case. It's also interesting to hear that people there generally don't think of themselves as so physically remote to the rest of the world, perhaps as you say because modern conveniences make everything seem so much easier and closer. Now you have me wondering if before such quick delivery, and the internet, and worldwide cable television etc., it was a different perception there or not.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

Very interesting, thanks! I had imagined most of New Zealand as being slightly colder than what you've described, and actually with more snow. Now I know that's not so much the case.

Although there are a surprising number of people overseas who imagine the climate here is like that of the South Pacific Islands far away north of us. Apart from those, who will find it much cooler than they imagined, I think many find it mainly wetter and windier than they are used to or were expecting. It is a common misinformed NZ'er's view that the UK (especially London) is a very wet place in comparison to NZ, whereas the opposite is the case. Auckland and Wellington, for example, have getting on to 3 times the annual rainfall of London and about 1.3 times the rainfall of Glasgow (to take a more northern city). I haven't checked but I suspect that we get more sunny days though. Thinking of Owls Do Cry and its comments about things getting better as one goes north, both Dunedin and Christchurch have around half the rainfall of Wellington and Auckland.

Winds gusting to 65-75mph are pretty common in many places in NZ with Wellington being the windiest main city. Once in Paris when they were having a "storm" which was quite big news there, with big branches breaking off trees in the parks, etc., it seemed to me to be just a pretty average breezy day.

Originally Posted by sun surfer

It's also interesting to hear that people there generally don't think of themselves as so physically remote to the rest of the world, perhaps as you say because modern conveniences make everything seem so much easier and closer. Now you have me wondering if before such quick delivery, and the internet, and worldwide cable television etc., it was a different perception there or not.

It is getting much less now though but in the past the concept of distance was pretty much obscured behind small-town-like parochial smugness such as "we are so lucky here in god's-own-country" (and one still hears "godzone" a lot), "we can solve anything with a piece of fencing wire" (meaning inventive, whereas NZ actually has very low levels of R&D expenditure and patented inventions), "we are lucky having such wonderful food here"; all things from a lack of open eyed worldly experience even among the many who travel.

Over the years almost all the most capable people, both with respect to their expertise and ability to look outwards, I have worked with on complex technology based assignments here have ended up leaving NZ forever. I am the only person in my immediate family who still lives in NZ (I hope that does not infer anything about me ). It is a good place for a summer holiday though, as long as one is not looking for culture (in the way of top theatre, ballet, music of whatever type, art, etc.) or history (in the way of architecture and record). Fortunately for us we have spent the last 28 years living in 3 different locations all regarded as good lakeside or seaside holiday destinations, so while we miss the other things we have the holiday bit covered for 12 months of the year .

[sun surfer]

It's time for choosing August's topic!

All ideas are appreciated; just post! We're very flexible with our monthly topic; it can be a topic, theme, category or whatever else. This can also be collaborative so any little kernel of an idea or direction is great.

So what ideas do you have?

[sun surfer]

One idea I've got is The Zodiac. This is wide-ranging and could be any title or something in the book to do with a zodiac sign name such as Libra, Leo, Gemini, etc., or the word zodiac itself. More broadly it could have something to do with astrology, horoscopes, divination, mysticism, constellations, planets, the sun, the moon, elements (air, fire, water, earth, wood, metal), etc. As well there's not only the western zodiac to draw inspiration from but also the Chinese zodiac and perhaps others too.

[sun surfer]

That’s all I’ve got for this month so far. But if anyone else has another idea or likes a previously mentioned idea or revisiting a previously used topic then I’m more than happy for it.

[AnotherCat]

The Zodiac sound fine to me - although, on the spur of the moment, the only two books I can think of are The Luminaries and the Ford Zodiac Workshop Manual (an English car in the past), neither of which I hope ever to have to read .