Why is there no e-ink innovation in the USA?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

Kindles are loss leaders. For the most part, Kindles are not profitable for Amazon - ebooks are.

Citation, please?
All the breakdowns I've seen show a slight profit.

[HarryT]

Mr Bezos said a couple of years ago that the Kindle Paperwhite is sold at cost price:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19907546

I rather suspect that they make a profit on the Voyage, though.

[cvkemp]

And they make a lot of money on the sale of books, movies, music etc. And I do believe that make up some of that profit on the sale of the voyage. I just cannot see it being that expensive

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Mr Bezos said a couple of years ago that the Kindle Paperwhite is sold at cost price:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19907546

I rather suspect that they make a profit on the Voyage, though.

Very likely.

But selling at cost then isn't selling at a loss today.
(And breakeven on the ad-supported models in those days still meant a profit on the ad-free versions. Aside from the ad revenue.)

ereaders is too mature a business these days for subsidized hardware.

[HarryT]

I agree. I certainly don't think they're sold at a loss.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I agree. I certainly don't think they're sold at a loss.

They can't.
The feds wouldn't like it.

[patrickt]

I wonder what innovation people want. Do that want the exciting buttons for turning pages? Would that be innovation. I want to read books. I can't imagine a big innovation that I want to pay for. I don't need color. I don't want a 8x10 inch screen and certainly wouldn't want to pay for one. I don't want sound since I have a cell phone that I can use for audiobooks. But, a bigger screen, page-turn buttons, and sound aren't innovations. They're things Kindles had and abandoned. Oh, the amazing innovation of a mechanical keyboard, perhaps.

I'm admittedly not a technically savvy as some so let me know what innovations we're waiting for.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'm admittedly not a technically savvy as some so let me know what innovations we're waiting for.

I suspect the hope is for Amazon to erect a temple to epub.
Or, perhaps the fear is they'll make Liquavista work.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I wonder what innovation people want. Do that want the exciting buttons for turning pages? Would that be innovation. I want to read books. I can't imagine a big innovation that I want to pay for. I don't need color. I don't want a 8x10 inch screen and certainly wouldn't want to pay for one. I don't want sound since I have a cell phone that I can use for audiobooks.

I agree. E-readers don't really need much in the way of innovation. Too many changes would ruin their main purpose. There's already 'evolved' e-readers. They're called tablets.

But to be fair to the OP, I think he's looking for an e-ink device that could access several different e-bookstores. They do already exist. But they aren't common in the US.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

It is called being priced out of the market. We cannot compete with the very low labor cost of the Asian countries.

Low labor is only a small part of the overall financial reality.
When I was in manufacturing we produced a small amount of waste glycol, from certain machines in the die casting department. The substance in question was mildly toxic because it was a concentrate of steeric acid. If you got it on you it would burn if not washed off in about fifteen minutes.

No surprise as it is made from the stomach acid of cows.

It also composts quickly into ordinary, everyday, run of the mill dirt if you pour it over leaves. Just like a decomposing cow stomach would.

Our waste disposal cost for the glycol exceeded the labor cost for the die casting department.

We had to tear out the floor in part of the plastics department and lay a thicker slab with more rebar to support some heavier machines. Getting government inspectors to come out and look several times through the process extended what should have been a five day job into three weeks of overtime.

I could go on all day, and so could anyone in manufacturing.

So the industry that moved to Asia isn't moving back, and direct labor costs isn't anywhere near the whole story.

And the design work will always gradually move closer to the production facilities. That is the way of things if quality control costs are to be minimized.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I wonder what innovation people want. Do that want the exciting buttons for turning pages? Would that be innovation. I want to read books. I can't imagine a big innovation that I want to pay for. I don't need color. I don't want a 8x10 inch screen and certainly wouldn't want to pay for one. I don't want sound since I have a cell phone that I can use for audiobooks. But, a bigger screen, page-turn buttons, and sound aren't innovations. They're things Kindles had and abandoned. Oh, the amazing innovation of a mechanical keyboard, perhaps.

I'm admittedly not a technically savvy as some so let me know what innovations we're waiting for.

Shh!!!! We weren't supposed to notice that!

As a matter of fact, I think you have nailed the big ones.
As fjtorres pointed out, some people want mandatory worship at the EPUB Temple.
Also, E-Ink tablets for reading books on the holy grail of Android. Whyever that might be important.

And you are also correct that it is factually improper to name any of those, save for color displays, as "innovation".
But funnily enough, the US companies are closer than anyone else (which is saying very little) to developing color displays. I don't see a lot of innovation outside the USA on that front.
But I am pretty sure we weren't supposed to mention that either.


Bottom line -- US companies pioneered and obsoleted -- according to their own highly subjective reckonoing, which is all that matters -- every feature currently touted as European "innovations".

The word phrase you are looking for is not "innovation", it is "maintenance of niche items". And as noted above, there are good reasons why those have been abandoned by the US market.

And innovation, for what it is worth, is in this case fundamentally of an incremental nature.

[cvkemp]

The problem I see people are so use to new stuff and they get bored with anything that is more than a few weeks to a few months old. On the other hand I was raised to believe it is not broke don't fix it. I love computers and messing with software. But I also believe that as long as it is working I am not going to mess with it. my laptop is at least 5 years old and it still runs windows 10 without issue. I also have a desktop that is about 9 years old and it runs windows 10 without issues. But when I do get something new I make sure that it is a the leading edge of the hardware that is available at that time. Now I will update and play with software as it come available. But hardware is hardware.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

On the other hand I was raised to believe it is not broke don't fix it.

And if it is broke, do fix it.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The problem with most of the "innovative" and experimental devices is they come from tiny companies where sales of 5-1000 units is big business. (For comparison, Kindle needs over 10,000 display units just for their B&M retail partners.) Which is why those "innovative" devices with 2-3 year old eink tech end up at eBay or BangBangGood or other China, Inc online distribution channels.

Especially given that I've repeatedly disagreed with you on other questions, I'm glad to be able to agree with you on this one.

This is from a March 2014 marketing study in India:

The most staggering revelation of all was the fact that 85% of our respondents would buy a Kindle if they had to buy an e-book reader.

The Chinese market seems a little more adventurous, but Kindle apparently dominates there as well. Here is what comes up when you search for eReader (电子阅读器) on China's number one eCommerce site:

http://s.taobao.com/search?q=%E7%94%...03581.d4908513

[cvkemp]

When it comes to readers the only thing you need to do is read books on them. If you want to do research then get a full computer and stress the hack out of your eyes. For me taking notes just takes away from what I enjoy. I read for entertainment. If I need to research or have a book for studies or classes I wand a real paper book

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

When it comes to readers the only thing you need to do is read books on them. If you want to do research then get a full computer and stress the hack out of your eyes.

I completely agree with you.

But then I want page turn buttons and others don't care for them.

Some of those people are concerned about shelves and collections, whereas I don't care about those.

I think the Kobo Aura HD and Aura H20's screens are too big, yet they have their fans.

The same goes for people who want to save quotations or do research on the book their reading.

It's easy to say "I just want to read books on my e-reader" and get lots of agreement. Until it comes down to discussing what exactly that entails.