Moderator bias

ekaser · 08-31-2009, 06:20 PM

The moderators of these forums can protest all they want. I don't buy it, and won't buy it, as long as there's a constant stream of 'indicators' showing the overwhelming bias of the moderators against Astak.

Latest case in point: PilotBob posted the news item on the front page announcing that the PEZ is shipping. Fine, cool, nice job, thanks. But WHY on earth would you CLOSE THAT THREAD? I couldn't find any other recent news items from the main page whose thread had been closed, yet THIS one is closed as soon as it's posted. I can only assume that the moderator doesn't want ANY comments or discussions added to that front page news item. Why?

Yes, I understand why the moderators are irritated at Robert from Astak. But they've pretty well driven him from the forums now. Why continue making Astak customers feel like second-class citizens on MR?

Alexander Turcic · 08-31-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekaser

PilotBob posted the news item on the front page announcing that the PEZ is shipping. Fine, cool, nice job, thanks. But WHY on earth would you CLOSE THAT THREAD? I couldn't find any other recent news items from the main page whose thread had been closed, yet THIS one is closed as soon as it's posted. I can only assume that the moderator doesn't want ANY comments or discussions added to that front page news item. Why?

Your concerns are completely unwarranted. There is an ongoing discussion on the topic of the news, and in this case it is up to the person who reports the news to lead to the ongoing discussion rather than starting a new (duplicate) discussion.

For your references:

Sony is going ePub all the way! And a third new Reader?

Sony PRS-300 and PRS-600 press release and gallery

Amazon close to a deal on a UK Kindle / to include 3G and Wi-Fi

Hellmark · 08-31-2009, 07:02 PM

If there was bias AGAINST Astak, why would they make an astak only forum, when the astak devices are rebranded products? If anything it could be argued that they're biased for Astak. However, in my opinion, they don't seem to be biased.

ekaser · 08-31-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Your concerns are completely unwarranted. There is an ongoing discussion on the topic of the news, and in this case it is up to the person who reports the news to lead to the ongoing discussion rather than starting a new (duplicate) discussion.

I understand what you're saying, and can see your three other topics that have been closed (although they're certainly, by far, in the minority, if you scan the front page topics...)

I have the utmost respect for you and the other moderators, for having created this forum and maintaining it, as well as sheparding its on-going growth. Please have NO misunderstanding on that point. Also, PLEASE understand that the length of the following post does NOT mean that I'm hot under the collar and angry, red-faced mad at you and the moderators. NOT so. Merely trying to convey to you guys, given the sometimes limited and trying medium of the written word, how things can appear from THIS end of the wire.

Yes, Astak was given its own section in DEVICES (and "Thank you!" for that). But one has to wonder if part of the reason (besides its popularity in postings) wasn't to get all (or most) of the Astak related postings out of the "News and Commentary" section (probably not, I'm just saying that it COULD be seen that way). Pretty much any thread that has been started in "News and Commentary" regarding Astak has either been closed or moved to the Astak section. Do a forum search for Astak... In "News and Commentary" we find:

Astak EZ Reader Pocket Pro is now shipping (from PilotBob, CLOSED)
[POLL] Sony or Astak? (well, it's a Sony article, too...)
Breaking news!!!!! Sony to sell Epub only (well, it's Sony...)
New Sony model to be called PRS-300 and PRS-600 (Umm... Sony)
Preorder PRS-300 and PRS-600 from SonyStyle.com (Sigh...)
Mobipocket ebooks useless after firmware upgrade (hmmm...)
New technology for "touch" screen (Okay...)

[skipping a plethora of posts about Sony, Kindle, etc, that just happen to mention Astak somewhere in their threads...]

Oh, wait, here's one that you forgot to move:
Printed Electronics 2009 features ALL eBook Manufacturers (posted by Astak's Robertb... but fortunately that was over two weeks ago, and no one responded to it anyway...)

We have to go clear back to 7-30-2009 to find the start of an Astak thread in the "News and Commentary" section:
Epson and 400MHz with ADE and TTS:$229
which was last replied to on 8-7-2009. (You might want to move that one to the Astak forum.)

Yet on just the FIRST page of "News and Commentary" we have:
Is the Amazon Kindle infringing patents?
Frustrated with all the recent posts by Kindle-only authors
Sony PRS-505 spotted in the wild
Sony stores stop selling PRS-600
Sony Reader Daily Edition - SCOOP!
Sony PRS 600 Hands on Video Review
Sony Reader first hand reports

Now, I realize that Sony is BIG, Sony just released new models, yet the (limited) experience so far says that all Astak specific threads will get moved to the Astak forum unless they're created there in the first place. Don't Sony and Kindle have their sections, too???

I know, I know, wait until the new 5" PEZ gets into people's hands, we start getting reviews, etc. I'll be happy to wait (well, no, I'm eager to get MINE so I can start using it!

) But I suspect that you won't have to worry about having too many Astak threads in "News and Commentary", since the Astak owners now have a section of their own...

AGAIN: this is NOT a BIG thing for me (at least, not so far...). But I felt like I needed to voice my perceptions. Feedback. I probably should have started this thread in the FEEDBACK section, but since it's Astak-focussed, I figured other people interested in Astak devices might find it interesting, and would be more likely to find it here than buried in the Feedback section.

Just sign me,

Conspiracy Theory Artiste

pilotbob · 08-31-2009, 08:32 PM

So, we are biased against Astak because:

1. We don't create a dedicated forum for it.

2. We do create a dedicated forum for it.

3. We don't post front page news about Astak.

4. Because we do post front page news about Astak.

From this side of the wire it looks like some of your arguments points are a bit contradictory. Considering your are not upset about this, how am I meant to take your comments?

I sincerely apologize to any one that I have offended by posting news about Astak on the front page. I also sincerely apologize to anyone that I have offended by not posting enough news about Astak on the front page.

BOb - Human - Moderator

Faenad · 08-31-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

experience so far says that all Astak specific threads will get moved to the Astak forum unless they're created there in the first place.

As a person genuinely interested in the new Astak devices I find that it is a good thing.

I am interested in the Pocket Pro and found it quite difficult to get info on the device, as there was a lot of similar posting especially by RobertB, each without much reliable information on the new devices.

Robertb also posted several posts to push commercially his products, and he also has the habit to use false arguments to bash competitor products. I don't know if the Moderators were annoyed by this, but I certainly was.

Now I am hoping for some unbiased reviews of the new Astak reader, both by independent websites and by the first purchasers.

ekaser · 09-01-2009, 12:04 AM

PilotBob: As I said, "I have the utmost respect for...the moderators". Period. No insult was intended, and I'm sorry you took it that way. Alex said that, "There is an ongoing discussion on the topic of the news..." That discussion is not something that I've been aware of (nor, I imagine, very many of the members have been), and therefore it seemed a bit... odd that the announcement news item was closed immediately. Look at the front page news items: very few of them are closed. It simply struck me as weird, and that makes a person wonder, "Why?" Simple as that. Other than that (and I'm not trying to start an argument), your reply seems a bit ... inflamatory. I realize we're all 'human' (as you say), and I THOUGHT that I was being fairly reasonable in my posts discussing things. Oh well. (NOTE: NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with RobertB, from MY point of view. I am not his shill, nor am I offended on his behalf by "how he's been treated" in these forums, nor am I trying to defend him or his actions. Please don't paint me with the same brush.)

Faenad: See above. I am not RobertB, nor am I defending him or his actions. I was merely enquiring about the "state of mind" of the moderators, knowing fully well that they are human, that they've been irritated by RobertB and his pushing of the Astak line, and it is perfectly natural to wonder if they might be negatively affected by that to some degree. I agree that having an Astak devices forum IS a good thing. I, too, am hoping for some unbiased reviews by independent folks. That same "unbiased" behavior is what I'm hoping for from the moderators as well, as was the reason I started this thread: to DISCUSS the matter. The moderators have absolute control over this forum. It is not outside the realm of reasonableness for the forum members to watch and question the actions taken by those moderators, is it?

Edit: After-thought: I am NOT trying to continue to argue that the moderators are biased. I do not wish to start/continue an argument to that effect. I raised the question, Alex answered it, and I tried to clarify my thinking and reasoning. I'm perfectly willing to take Alex's assurances (and PilotBob's) that "nothing is going on" with regard to Astak postings. At least, for now...

smee · 09-01-2009, 07:55 AM

I think that news items which pertain to a specific device (or other topic) that already has a forum of its own should be locked after the initial post - with a link to a follow-up thread in the appropriate forum. This follow-up thread, if it doesn't already exist, should be created at the same time as the initial news post.

This will prevent things from showing up as new news when they really aren't. A good example of this, although not the only one, is the massive 3,267-post Astak thread that was originally in the news section (https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22658). While it may have originally qualified as news, it later became the de facto forum for Astak readers and most of the discussion was not news.

If most news posts are treated the same way, I think it will make it much clearer when new news is announced. Once things leave the front page, it will mean that you can still go to the news forum and see the latest news - not just the latest replies to news items.

08-31-2009, 06:20 PM	#1
ekaser Opinion Artiste Posts: 301 Karma: 61464 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, OR Device: Nexus 5, Nexus 7, Kindle Touch, Kindle Fire	Moderator bias The moderators of these forums can protest all they want. I don't buy it, and won't buy it, as long as there's a constant stream of 'indicators' showing the overwhelming bias of the moderators against Astak. Latest case in point: PilotBob posted the news item on the front page announcing that the PEZ is shipping. Fine, cool, nice job, thanks. But WHY on earth would you CLOSE THAT THREAD? I couldn't find any other recent news items from the main page whose thread had been closed, yet THIS one is closed as soon as it's posted. I can only assume that the moderator doesn't want ANY comments or discussions added to that front page news item. Why? Yes, I understand why the moderators are irritated at Robert from Astak. But they've pretty well driven him from the forums now. Why continue making Astak customers feel like second-class citizens on MR?

09-01-2009, 12:04 AM	#7
ekaser Opinion Artiste Posts: 301 Karma: 61464 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, OR Device: Nexus 5, Nexus 7, Kindle Touch, Kindle Fire	PilotBob: As I said, "I have the utmost respect for...the moderators". Period. No insult was intended, and I'm sorry you took it that way. Alex said that, "There is an ongoing discussion on the topic of the news..." That discussion is not something that I've been aware of (nor, I imagine, very many of the members have been), and therefore it seemed a bit... odd that the announcement news item was closed immediately. Look at the front page news items: very few of them are closed. It simply struck me as weird, and that makes a person wonder, "Why?" Simple as that. Other than that (and I'm not trying to start an argument), your reply seems a bit ... inflamatory. I realize we're all 'human' (as you say), and I THOUGHT that I was being fairly reasonable in my posts discussing things. Oh well. (NOTE: NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with RobertB, from MY point of view. I am not his shill, nor am I offended on his behalf by "how he's been treated" in these forums, nor am I trying to defend him or his actions. Please don't paint me with the same brush.) Faenad: See above. I am not RobertB, nor am I defending him or his actions. I was merely enquiring about the "state of mind" of the moderators, knowing fully well that they are human, that they've been irritated by RobertB and his pushing of the Astak line, and it is perfectly natural to wonder if they might be negatively affected by that to some degree. I agree that having an Astak devices forum IS a good thing. I, too, am hoping for some unbiased reviews by independent folks. That same "unbiased" behavior is what I'm hoping for from the moderators as well, as was the reason I started this thread: to DISCUSS the matter. The moderators have absolute control over this forum. It is not outside the realm of reasonableness for the forum members to watch and question the actions taken by those moderators, is it? Edit: After-thought: I am NOT trying to continue to argue that the moderators are biased. I do not wish to start/continue an argument to that effect. I raised the question, Alex answered it, and I tried to clarify my thinking and reasoning. I'm perfectly willing to take Alex's assurances (and PilotBob's) that "nothing is going on" with regard to Astak postings. At least, for now... Last edited by ekaser; 09-01-2009 at 12:08 AM.

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08-31-2009, 07:02 PM	#3
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	If there was bias AGAINST Astak, why would they make an astak only forum, when the astak devices are rebranded products? If anything it could be argued that they're biased for Astak. However, in my opinion, they don't seem to be biased.

08-31-2009, 08:32 PM	#5
pilotbob Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,832 Karma: 11844413 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa, FL USA Device: Kindle Touch	So, we are biased against Astak because: 1. We don't create a dedicated forum for it. 2. We do create a dedicated forum for it. 3. We don't post front page news about Astak. 4. Because we do post front page news about Astak. From this side of the wire it looks like some of your arguments points are a bit contradictory. Considering your are not upset about this, how am I meant to take your comments? I sincerely apologize to any one that I have offended by posting news about Astak on the front page. I also sincerely apologize to anyone that I have offended by not posting enough news about Astak on the front page. BOb - Human - Moderator

09-01-2009, 07:55 AM	#8
smee Member Posts: 11 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: none	I think that news items which pertain to a specific device (or other topic) that already has a forum of its own should be locked after the initial post - with a link to a follow-up thread in the appropriate forum. This follow-up thread, if it doesn't already exist, should be created at the same time as the initial news post. This will prevent things from showing up as new news when they really aren't. A good example of this, although not the only one, is the massive 3,267-post Astak thread that was originally in the news section (https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22658). While it may have originally qualified as news, it later became the de facto forum for Astak readers and most of the discussion was not news. If most news posts are treated the same way, I think it will make it much clearer when new news is announced. Once things leave the front page, it will mean that you can still go to the news forum and see the latest news - not just the latest replies to news items.