Beware Fictionwise - Page 3

JSWolf · 09-25-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timezone

This is not an accidental left behind issue. They provided a place to store the book. Can a business offer a place to store books and then say but sorry you can't pick up your book. But we will let you click on the download button for the thrill of it.

A library can say "Yes we have that book." when you go to look for it online. So you go to reserve it and then they come back and say "Sorry, but we really don't have it."

Most stores will only allow you so long to pick up your purchase before it goes back in stock. No store will hold your purchase for 9 months waiting for you to get it. And then if the item is no longer available, you are out of luck. You might get lucky and get a refund. But probably not. You'd most likely get a store credit at best.

JSWolf · 09-25-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timezone

I actually agree there is a possibility I am wrong. They did provide a notice. I just think we are to quick to agree to the terms of a virtual marketplace without saying, wait a minute. I still purchased a product and I own it. Whether in this case or in the case of fair use of DRM.

I owned a fictionwise book that I could not transfer to a new reader because it was no longer on Fictionwise. An agreement with the publisher. I lost the book. The publisher said take it up with the store. Fictionwise said it was not there fault. I am the damaged party. I think these issues have to be resolved eventually in court or congress. The virtual marketplace has gotten ahead of the consumer laws.

DRM is a lock and nobody has the key for you to use. That's the risk we take using media with DRM. Unless you can strip the DRM, not being able to transfer to a new reader is a risk we take.

I would like to see this issue go to court. But don't take Fictionwise. Take the Agency 5 as it is their fault. And even if you need a store to take to court, take B&N as they are the ones who didn't allow FW to deal with the Agency 5. So B&N basically let the eBooks from the Agency 5 be pulled from FW.

JSWolf · 09-25-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlainBobMax

Earlier this year I purchased Under the Dome and Pirate Latitudes from Fictionwise. Even though I was not ready to read them, I purchased them in order to get the Micropay rebate while they still appeared on the NYT Best Seller List.

Instead of downloading them, I left them on my FW Bookshelf. Yesterday I tried to download them but got an error message saying the was a problem interacting with the retail site. I tried a number of times, then emailed support at Fictionwise informing them of the problem.

Why did you wait so long to try to download your purchased eBooks? Why did you ignore the warning about April 1? I do not think you were wronged by FW. I think you just waited too long and then too late.

timezone · 09-25-2010, 01:40 PM

I will still argue the point that just because the relationship was severed between the seller and publisher doesn't mean the relationship is severed with the buyer. Obviously the notice was created to get around this problem. I am not so sure they are allowed to have a free out of responsibility card.

JSWolf · 09-25-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timezone

I will still argue the point that just because the relationship was severed between the seller and publisher doesn't mean the relationship is severed with the buyer. Obviously the notice was created to get around this problem. I am not so sure they are allowed to have a free out of responsibility card.

What about the responsibility of the OP? Why would the OP not bother to try to download his eBooks for almost 9 months?

If you owned a shop and someone bought an item from you and then failed to pick it up for 9 months, would you still have it laying in wait for the person to come pick it up especially since you stopped carrying that brand about 6 months ago?

sassanik · 09-25-2010, 01:59 PM

It sounds like the OP may have thought mistakenly that Fictionwise was a place that you can store your ebooks. Just because they normally have them available for download does not mean that it is intended to be a storage location for ebooks.

It is your responsibility to download your ebooks and make back ups of them.

The same thing with Amazon, it is your job to download the ebook because they can pull them at anytime, as they did with 1984 last year (or the year before?)

Moral of story- download immediately and back up your ebooks!! Just in case!

Amy

timezone · 09-25-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What about the responsibility of the OP? Why would the OP not bother to try to download his eBooks for almost 9 months?

If you owned a shop and someone bought an item from you and then failed to pick it up for 9 months, would you still have it laying in wait for the person to come pick it up especially since you stopped carrying that brand about 6 months ago?

If I was told it could be held then yes. Even it not sold anymore the shop owner should have put aside the item. If there is no room for it then the owner should not have agreed to put it aside. Now the gray area is that there is a disclamer notice.

timezone · 09-25-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassanik

It sounds like the OP may have thought mistakenly that Fictionwise was a place that you can store your ebooks. Just because they normally have them available for download does not mean that it is intended to be a storage location for ebooks.

It is your responsibility to download your ebooks and make back ups of them.

The same thing with Amazon, it is your job to download the ebook because they can pull them at anytime, as they did with 1984 last year (or the year before?)

Moral of story- download immediately and back up your ebooks!! Just in case!

Amy

Amazon pulled it because they said they didn't have the right to distribute the book. There is an assumption with Amazon that the books are held for you.

HarryT · 09-25-2010, 02:02 PM

If we want to use an analogy, I'd say it's more akin to going into a restaurant and paying for a meal. The waiter puts the meal on the table and tells you that you must eat it in the next hour. You, however, go away, and return to the restaurant six months later and say "I want to eat the meal that I bought six months ago".

timezone · 09-25-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

If we want to use an analogy, I'd say it's more akin to going into a restaurant and paying for a meal. The waiter puts the meal on the table and tells you that you must eat it in the next hour. You, however, go away, and return to the restaurant six months later and say "I want to eat the meal that I bought six months ago".

I would change it to I went into the restaurant and decided to pay in advance for a meal. Lets say I wanted to show off and return with someone and make it look like I had a tab. I return six months later to have the meal I paid for in advance.

I bought a book and decide to return later to pick it up. Same thing.

bgalbrecht · 09-25-2010, 02:43 PM

I bought a lot of books at Fictionwise in the year or so before the Agency pricing fiasco, and many of them were purchased as mass buys during their sales, and downloaded using their bulk downloader. After April 1, I discovered that there were 3 books that I never downloaded because they "couldn't be downloaded via bulk downloader", and I didn't doublecheck the .txt file embedded in the zip file to ensure that I got everything. Sure would have been nice if a warning had been displayed at the bulk download webpage, though. My fault? I suppose so, but I expected Fictionwise to eventually start carrying the Agency 5 again so that I would eventually be able to download them, but it hasn't happened, and I now doubt that it ever will. If Fictionwise were a vibrant retailer, hoping to retain customers, I would expect them to refund my purchase price, but my impression is that B&N wants to shut Fictionwise down and is not particularly concerned about retaining customers at their Fictionwise subsidiary. It's too bad, because as a Nook owner, what they do at Fictionwise affects the way I feel about the parent company and affects whether I buy from B&N or their competitors.

TGS · 09-25-2010, 03:08 PM

This is slightly off topic, but I signed up at Fictionwise today and soon after received a "welcome" email. It contained the line

Quote:

Save Money! Learn more about the Buywise Club! Go to:
http://www.fictionwise.com/buywisefaq.htm

On clicking the link one is taken to a page that says

Quote:

The Fictionwise Buywise Club can no longer be renewed and new subscriptions are no longer available. All existing Buywise Club members may continue to use their benefits until their memberships expire.

- The Fictionwise Team

I can't remember how long it is since they pulled the plug on the Buywise Club, several months I think, yet they have not bothered to change the text of their welcome email. Doesn't give a very good impression to be told one thing and to have it immediately contradicted.

HarryT · 09-25-2010, 03:10 PM

It was closed down in June.

tompe · 09-25-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassanik

It sounds like the OP may have thought mistakenly that Fictionwise was a place that you can store your ebooks. Just because they normally have them available for download does not mean that it is intended to be a storage location for ebooks.

Easy mistake to make. For example www.mobipocket.com says

Quote:

My Mobipocket is your personal virtual library, from which you can download again any number of times all the e-books that you've already downloaded once. This means you can have access to your own library of e-books, anywhere, anytime on the Internet.

And I seem to remember other shops that have emphasised the storage part.

BWhite · 09-25-2010, 03:15 PM

Ahem.

While it is nice to retain the view that the eBook seller is not an eternal bookshelf (such a viewpoint of course protects you from unpleasant future surprises) this view is NOT how Amazon's advertising to the consumer is oriented. At least not today.

Help > Digital Products > Kindle > Your Kindle Library Content

Your Kindle Library Content

We have created a library for you on Amazon.com. We make books and periodicals you purchased from the Kindle Store available in the library for re-download wirelessly from your Kindle or from the Manage Your Kindle page. You can keep your own back-up of your content by saving a copy to your computer or another storage device.

Amazon also backs up annotations you make in books you purchase from us so that they will be available to you if you re-download the content from your library. Amazon.com does not back up personal documents, MP3s, or other content that you download or transfer from your computer to your Kindle which you have not purchased from the Kindle Store.

Amazon makes exceptions for periodicals and does mention in its blurb those items will eventually disappear...

Only recent issues of newspapers and magazines and recent blog entries remain available in your library for re-download.

09-25-2010, 01:59 PM	#36
sassanik Guru Posts: 774 Karma: 1211741 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oregon Device: EB1150, iPhone, Cool-er Purple, Pocketbook 360, Kindle Fire	Fictionwise is not a storage location for your ebooks It sounds like the OP may have thought mistakenly that Fictionwise was a place that you can store your ebooks. Just because they normally have them available for download does not mean that it is intended to be a storage location for ebooks. It is your responsibility to download your ebooks and make back ups of them. The same thing with Amazon, it is your job to download the ebook because they can pull them at anytime, as they did with 1984 last year (or the year before?) Moral of story- download immediately and back up your ebooks!! Just in case! Amy

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09-25-2010, 01:40 PM	#34
timezone Addict Posts: 244 Karma: 1232 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boston, MA Device: Windows Phone7, Kindle Fire	I will still argue the point that just because the relationship was severed between the seller and publisher doesn't mean the relationship is severed with the buyer. Obviously the notice was created to get around this problem. I am not so sure they are allowed to have a free out of responsibility card.

09-25-2010, 02:02 PM	#39
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	If we want to use an analogy, I'd say it's more akin to going into a restaurant and paying for a meal. The waiter puts the meal on the table and tells you that you must eat it in the next hour. You, however, go away, and return to the restaurant six months later and say "I want to eat the meal that I bought six months ago".

09-25-2010, 02:43 PM	#41
bgalbrecht Wizard Posts: 1,806 Karma: 13399999 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: US Device: Nook Simple Touch, Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Clara HD, Kindle 4	I bought a lot of books at Fictionwise in the year or so before the Agency pricing fiasco, and many of them were purchased as mass buys during their sales, and downloaded using their bulk downloader. After April 1, I discovered that there were 3 books that I never downloaded because they "couldn't be downloaded via bulk downloader", and I didn't doublecheck the .txt file embedded in the zip file to ensure that I got everything. Sure would have been nice if a warning had been displayed at the bulk download webpage, though. My fault? I suppose so, but I expected Fictionwise to eventually start carrying the Agency 5 again so that I would eventually be able to download them, but it hasn't happened, and I now doubt that it ever will. If Fictionwise were a vibrant retailer, hoping to retain customers, I would expect them to refund my purchase price, but my impression is that B&N wants to shut Fictionwise down and is not particularly concerned about retaining customers at their Fictionwise subsidiary. It's too bad, because as a Nook owner, what they do at Fictionwise affects the way I feel about the parent company and affects whether I buy from B&N or their competitors.

09-25-2010, 03:10 PM	#43
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It was closed down in June.

09-25-2010, 03:15 PM	#45
BWhite Connoisseur Posts: 97 Karma: 526 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Sony PSP, Palm TX	Ahem. While it is nice to retain the view that the eBook seller is not an eternal bookshelf (such a viewpoint of course protects you from unpleasant future surprises) this view is NOT how Amazon's advertising to the consumer is oriented. At least not today. Help > Digital Products > Kindle > Your Kindle Library Content Your Kindle Library Content We have created a library for you on Amazon.com. We make books and periodicals you purchased from the Kindle Store available in the library for re-download wirelessly from your Kindle or from the Manage Your Kindle page. You can keep your own back-up of your content by saving a copy to your computer or another storage device. Amazon also backs up annotations you make in books you purchase from us so that they will be available to you if you re-download the content from your library. Amazon.com does not back up personal documents, MP3s, or other content that you download or transfer from your computer to your Kindle which you have not purchased from the Kindle Store. Amazon makes exceptions for periodicals and does mention in its blurb those items will eventually disappear... Only recent issues of newspapers and magazines and recent blog entries remain available in your library for re-download.

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