Are bookstores still worth fighting for? - Page 4

BWinmill · 07-22-2013, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jersysman

Paper books will always be around, but I believe they will become a niche products just as LPs are to the music world.

Radio was supposed to make books obsolete. It didn't happen.

Television was supposed to make radio and books obsolete. It didn't happen.

Computers were supposed to make television, radio, and books obsolete. It didn't happen.

It is worth noting that that books, radio, and television have not become niche products either. They have changed with successive technologies, to be sure, but they are still fundamental parts of our society. I don't see why ebooks will fundamentally change this pattern.

(I also disagree with the LP analogy. An LP is just an electronic medium(1) for storing music, much like the 8-track, audio cassette, and CD. It is more analagous to the various ebook formats than print vs. electronic books.)

Footnote:
(1) Yes, I'm aware that LP's don't depend upon electronics. Yet most of the means of playing back LP's depended upon electronic amplifiers.

HansTWN · 07-22-2013, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Radio was supposed to make books obsolete. It didn't happen.

Television was supposed to make radio and books obsolete. It didn't happen.

Computers were supposed to make television, radio, and books obsolete. It didn't happen.

It is worth noting that that books, radio, and television have not become niche products either. They have changed with successive technologies, to be sure, but they are still fundamental parts of our society. I don't see why ebooks will fundamentally change this pattern.

(I also disagree with the LP analogy. An LP is just an electronic medium(1) for storing music, much like the 8-track, audio cassette, and CD. It is more analagous to the various ebook formats than print vs. electronic books.)

Footnote:
(1) Yes, I'm aware that LP's don't depend upon electronics. Yet most of the means of playing back LP's depended upon electronic amplifiers.

LPs vs CDs vs digital files on an SSD or HD are the perfect comparison to ebooks vs pbooks. New storage media and ways of consuming the same books replace old ones. TV vs radio&books those are different forms of entertainment. I don't see the connection. Another good example is printed books replacing hand written books, we have a similar game changer with ebooks. They are not perfect for all kinds of books yet, but they will be some day soon.

SouthernSun · 07-22-2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jersysman

I said no such thing. But, I do say that the digital age is here and what one does with it will be up to them, It has not hit everywhere on this vast planet as of yet, but it will eventually. Progress is a funny thing. It has a way of sneaking up on you and before you know it, it is here. Nothing is absolute, but if you think this younger generation is not more fully immersed in this digital age than the older generation is, then I do believe that you are wrong. The facebooks, twitters, tumblrs, pininterest of the world is not going anywhere. Tablets, phablets, chromebooks, smartphones are here to stay and will get more numerous. Paper books will always be around, but I believe they will become a niche products just as LPs are to the music world.

But I'm not talking about the digital age. I'm not talking about the Internet, about Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr/Reddit. I'm not talking about tablets and smartphones and Google glasses. I'm well aware that my generation is very much immersed in technology; I am, myself.

What I am saying is that from my observations, those of my generation who I have been exposed to prefer paper books by a significant margin. Most of us have ereaders, but even those of us who do read paper books far more often. Again, from my observations, those of older generations to whom I've been exposed prefer ereaders by a significant margin.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with technological immersion outside of books.

I'm just talking about books.

BWinmill · 07-23-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

LPs vs CDs vs digital files on an SSD or HD are the perfect comparison to ebooks vs pbooks. New storage media and ways of consuming the same books replace old ones. TV vs radio&books those are different forms of entertainment. I don't see the connection. Another good example is printed books replacing hand written books, we have a similar game changer with ebooks. They are not perfect for all kinds of books yet, but they will be some day soon.

I kinda see what you're getting to, but kinda don't. What you said about TV vs. radio vs. book is certainly true, though I get the impression that they weren't seen as true back in the day. (I'm old enough to see the parallels with computers though, but computers are different in that they support text and audio and video quite well from the early 1990s onward. On the otherhand, I am too young to have been around for the introduction of TV -- nevermind radio!)

For some reason though, I see that technological distinction as quite small. However, I see the difference between media that is directly interpreted by human senses (such as books) and reliant upon electronic devices (such as ebooks) as being quite large.

HansTWN · 07-23-2013, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWinmill

However, I see the difference between media that is directly interpreted by human senses (such as books) and reliant upon electronic devices (such as ebooks) as being quite large.

To each his own. For me a pbook or an ebook on an ereader both are just words displayed on a page from where "they are being directly interpreted by human senses". Does it matter how they got there? Not for reading the text. I feel you distinction is arbitrary and some day in the not to distant future ebooks will virtually wipe out pbooks in most markets, with pbooks remaining as historical artifacts only.

FullCircleDesign · 07-23-2013, 03:38 AM

eBooks for text books and printed books for picture books!!!
I still prefer going to a book shop and "examining" the book before buying!

samhy · 07-23-2013, 06:15 AM

Paper books are the best for children. And nice bookstores to have a broader choice for said children books (if one wants to try something outside the fairy/horse books for girls and car/pirate for boys*).

* of course, it's not that cut and dry

SouthernSun · 07-23-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullCircleDesign

eBooks for text books and printed books for picture books!!!
I still prefer going to a book shop and "examining" the book before buying!

This is the one area where I would buy 100% electronic if I had the choice - and none of my textbooks are available as ebooks!

WT Sharpe · 07-23-2013, 09:55 AM

I never have the least difficulty holding a book open on an ereader, even if it's a thousand pages long, and even whole series of books weigh less than 10 ounces in my hand. I can copy passages for quoting and write notes that I can instantly transfer to any word processor in my arsenal. Try doing that with a paper book.

HarryT · 07-23-2013, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Radio was supposed to make books obsolete.

Can you supply any supporting evidence for this claim? It seems a little improbable to me that this was the intended purpose of radio, and it's a claim I haven't previously encountered.

ApK · 07-23-2013, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you supply any supporting evidence for this claim? It seems a little improbable to me that this was the intended purpose of radio, and it's a claim I haven't previously encountered.

Certainly not the intended purpose, but I can certainly believe a certain kind of person was saying "It's a sad day for books if radio is going to beam stories right into people's homes, for free, complete with sound effects. Why would any one get off their sofas to go buy a book....?"

AnemicOak · 07-23-2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache

In have to agree with the people who suggest that online book buying has doomed the brick and mortar stores. Long before I started reading eBooks I was buying most of my books online. The hard backs were half what you paid in the stores and I always got free shipping too.

Same for me, but it wasn't completely about price for me. The only stores I have/had semi-convenient access to were chains like B&N and Borders (& Walden and B Dalton earlier on). It's those stores and the lack of them ever having what I went in looking for (often newly published books) that drove me to make my first Amazon purchase in the late 90's. This slowly led me to shift much of my book shopping (& by extension some other shopping) to Amazon. They were always nice enough to offer to order the book for me, but I'd then have to go back and pick it up once they got it in. I could order from Amazon and not only have it delivered, but get a discount. They could have easily saved those sales, despite the higher prices, by offering to not only order it for me, but to have it delivered to my house.

I like the idea of stores like Uncle Hugo's & Uncle Edgar's, but I have to find the time to go out of my way and make a special trip. I generally just don't have time.

DiapDealer · 07-23-2013, 10:37 AM

Haven't had a "local" bookstore in my area in over 25 years. And I refuse to feel all nostalgic about the fact that the big chain bookstores that put that one out of business are now struggling with their own obsolescence. Crying has never prolonged a dying business model. Only foresight and a willingness to adapt to a changing landscape does that.

tubemonkey · 07-23-2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Haven't had a "local" bookstore in my area in over 25 years. And I refuse to feel all nostalgic about the fact that the big chain bookstores that put that one out of business are now struggling with their own obsolescence. Crying has never prolonged a dying business model. Only foresight and a willingness to adapt to a changing landscape does that.

^ this

QuantumIguana · 07-23-2013, 11:11 AM

If you want to support bookstores, support them. There's nothing to "fight" for, just spend your money there if you want to. If you don't want paper books, don't shop there. Bookstores have to remain viable businesses if they are to continue in business. If anyone has to "fight" it is the owners of bookstores. Berating e-books doesn't make their businesses viable. They need to figure out how best to tap into the market that wants printed books.

The days may be numbered for the big box bookstores, but smaller independent bookstores should be able to succeed, if they are run correctly. It's easy to get trapped in an e-book bubble, but while the market share of paper books will decrease, it's not likely to go away in the foreseeable future.

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07-23-2013, 03:38 AM	#51
FullCircleDesign Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: South Africa Device: iPad 2, iPad 3, iPhone 4, Galaxy 2, Kindle App, ADE	eBooks for text books and printed books for picture books!!! I still prefer going to a book shop and "examining" the book before buying!

07-23-2013, 06:15 AM	#52
samhy Wizard Posts: 1,820 Karma: 9503859 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Device: (Sony (J) PRS 650), Kobo Mini, Kobo Glo HD	Paper books are the best for children. And nice bookstores to have a broader choice for said children books (if one wants to try something outside the fairy/horse books for girls and car/pirate for boys). of course, it's not that cut and dry

07-23-2013, 09:55 AM	#54
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,073 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	I never have the least difficulty holding a book open on an ereader, even if it's a thousand pages long, and even whole series of books weigh less than 10 ounces in my hand. I can copy passages for quoting and write notes that I can instantly transfer to any word processor in my arsenal. Try doing that with a paper book.

07-23-2013, 10:37 AM	#58
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,549 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Haven't had a "local" bookstore in my area in over 25 years. And I refuse to feel all nostalgic about the fact that the big chain bookstores that put that one out of business are now struggling with their own obsolescence. Crying has never prolonged a dying business model. Only foresight and a willingness to adapt to a changing landscape does that.

07-23-2013, 11:11 AM	#60
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	If you want to support bookstores, support them. There's nothing to "fight" for, just spend your money there if you want to. If you don't want paper books, don't shop there. Bookstores have to remain viable businesses if they are to continue in business. If anyone has to "fight" it is the owners of bookstores. Berating e-books doesn't make their businesses viable. They need to figure out how best to tap into the market that wants printed books. The days may be numbered for the big box bookstores, but smaller independent bookstores should be able to succeed, if they are run correctly. It's easy to get trapped in an e-book bubble, but while the market share of paper books will decrease, it's not likely to go away in the foreseeable future.