10-12-2009, 11:52 PM | #151 | ||
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10-13-2009, 10:07 AM | #152 | |
Da'i
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10-13-2009, 12:29 PM | #153 |
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That sounds similar to Ebonics in the USA. Literacy is the result of education no matter where you are in the world. More education gives rise to more literacy and speaking in more-or-less the proper form of the language. Yes, languages change over time but not at the pace suggested by the speech of illiterates.
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10-13-2009, 12:42 PM | #154 | |
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It's a case of people speaking languages that, for cultural reasons, are never written... i.e.: Cantonese people (unless they actually learned to *speak* Mandarin) only speak Cantonese and only read/write Hanzi based on Mandarin. Another good comparison might be Europeans speaking one language, but writing only in French or Latin. Many Europeans countries' *official* (i.e.: government produced), and often also private, written historical records are almost entirely in Latin until fairly late in history... because those who wrote rarely or never did so in the country's native language. - Ahi |
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10-14-2009, 06:45 AM | #155 |
Evangelist
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Any country without the Kindle is lucky, because people will check out competing products that are much better.
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10-14-2009, 09:53 AM | #156 | |
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10-14-2009, 09:56 AM | #157 | |
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Is this not the case, or an oversimplification? - Ahi |
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10-14-2009, 10:13 AM | #158 |
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The Hanzi are the same everywhere -- but they are not connected to Mandarin. So "Mandarin Hanzi" is a misnomer, it must be "Chinese Hanzi" (since the Han 漢 actually stands for the Han people that is, of course, repetitive). Mandarin really is only the dialect of the Beijing/Tianjin region. Hanzi are covering all of China. Hanzi were historically the only way to communicate for Chinese from different regions, before Mandarin was taught in schools all over the country. Every character is pronounced differently by a Cantonese speaker than the same character is pronounced by a Mandarin speaker, but the meaning is the same (quite often there are similarities in pronunciation but not always). Chinese characters are symbols, and every Chinese dialect/language affixes a different pronounciation to each character. Every Chinese can read 一 二 三 and knows it means 1,2,3. But in Mandarin it will be pronounced "Yi Er San"; in Cantonese "Yat Yi Sam" and in Hokklo/Taiwanese "Ji Neng Sa". In writing all 3 languages are mostly the same, except for some of the differences I pointed out. Remember, the characters are not phonetic symbols.
People in Hong Kong have created a number of special characters that only they use to cover some local expressions. Some grammatical constructions are different. So if a Mandarin speaker reads a HK newspaper he/she has no problems understanding it, it just may seem a little strange sometimes. Because the paper will be written "in Cantonese". Some Chinese dialects actually only are dialects (take Sichuanese, for example). The pronounciation is a little off. The tones differ sometimes, they have some unique local vocabulary, but a Mandarin speaker will do fine. After a day or two in the region you can get almost everything when overhearing locals' conversations. Last edited by HansTWN; 10-14-2009 at 10:20 AM. |
10-14-2009, 10:29 AM | #159 | |
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Hmmm... isn't this article saying something closer to what I suggested? (Albeit not going quite as far perhaps.)
EDIT: Also: Quote:
Last edited by ahi; 10-14-2009 at 10:38 AM. |
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10-14-2009, 10:56 AM | #160 | |
must love dogs
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I think one can buy and/or read any normal book - that is of course if a bookshop or library has either bothered to import it or was able to afford to import it. There are no strange or unusual bans or whatever on importing books. The only problem I can think of is affordability,since Zimbabwe has (I think) the highest inflation rate in the world. Last edited by dragonbone; 10-14-2009 at 10:59 AM. |
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10-14-2009, 11:05 AM | #161 |
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Ahi, that article contains quite a bit of nonsense. You cannot write Taiwanese in "bopomofo", only Mandarin. You can write Taiwanese phonetically using the "TongYong PinYin", just as you can write Mandarin in that PinYin version or the regular PinYin. But the regular written language of Taiwanese, Cantonese and every other Chinese language is Hanzi.
"Cantonese is unique among non-Mandarin regional languages in having a written colloquial standard" -- I am sure what he is referring to is exactly what I have pointed out. Some special characters unique to Cantonese and sometimes a different syntax. An example (not a very nice one, but it will suffice) would be: Mandarin "我把這個給你" "Wo ba zhe ge gei ni" Wo = I; Zhe ge = this thing, Gei = give, Ni = You. The use of "Ba" is a special construction needed in Mandarin when forming this sentence. Cantonese "我給這個你" "Wo gei zhe ge ni" (Mandarin pronunciation of these characters). Actually most Cantonese speakers carry this over into Mandarin, but in Mandarin it is wrong. Sometimes different words are used. In Mandarin "電梯" "Dian Ti" stands for both escalator and elevator. In HK they use the same for escalator, but "升降機" "Sheng Jiang Ji" (literally = the machine that goes up and down) for elevator. But it is written in Hanzi and can be easily understood by any Chinese reader (even by some 80 year-old in Taiwan who grew up learning only Taiwanese and Japanese, never even learning Mandarin). Just a few minor differences, but more pronounced than for other Chinese languages. Chinese when they communicate in writing always communicate in Hanzi , no matter what dialect they use. But when they read it out loud it becomes Cantonese, Taiwanese or whatever. Last edited by HansTWN; 10-14-2009 at 11:10 AM. |
10-14-2009, 12:07 PM | #162 | |
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Is that different then from somebody trying to learn to read Hanzi by only knowing the English meaning of the characters and character combinations, along with idioms of course? Or with some of the Chinese languages/dialects is it basically somewhat like that? - Ahi |
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10-14-2009, 03:38 PM | #163 | |
Da'i
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10-14-2009, 04:57 PM | #164 |
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10-14-2009, 06:07 PM | #165 |
Publishers are evil!
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The Satanic Verses is not available at Amazon. Maybe they're also anti-anti-Muslim.
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