Help! Aaaarrrrrrgggghhh - SD unusable!!!

Bob Russell · 12-18-2004, 12:48 PM

If you ask me right now, I hate Pocket PC with a passion. Well, that's just a reaction because...

I can't read anything on my SD card. A 1gig card, more than half full, and it's all gone. Doesn't show up in my File Explorer or anywhere else on my PPC. My Dazzle card reader doesn't find anything on it either, and asks me if I want to reformat it? (And for FAT32 at LESS THAN 1gig also... I think it was 975MB.)

So anyone have any ideas how I can recover my data or how I should reformat the card? (From WinXP and Dazzle card reader, or elsewhere?)

I do have a backup from 12-11, so not totally lost, and the main memory still exists. But even if I restore my SD data, with all the progs that are installed on card, am I going to get corruption or problems due to my main mem files and sd files not being in sync for some programs. i.e. do I have to use my 12-11 recovery all together and then try to get active sync to restore my PIM data on top of that? (Ugh!!!)

Any tips would be appreciated, but I'm sure about ready to drive up to the store and buy a T5 or Zodiac right now! I've used Palms for probably 10-15yrs now and never had problems like this!!!!! Aaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!

Alexander Turcic · 12-18-2004, 05:47 PM

You are not alone... happened to me already TWICE with my Axim and its 1GB Sandisk SD card! First I thought it was the external card reader at fault; but the second card corruption occured when I definitely never left the card out of the PDA.

Then I found this, *very interesting* link: http://sdprob.aximsite.com/ (it also tells you why you don't see the full 1Gb when you reformat your card)

The problem of SD card corruption is known and there is as far as I know no fix currently available.

What I did afterwards is to reformat my card using FAT32 with a COPY of the FAT table (your format app must support this)! One advantage FAT32 has over FAT16 is that it can use both the default and the copy of the FAT table. Both FAT16 and FAT32 maintain two copies of the actual file allocation table, the default and a backup copy. But the FAT16 system can use only the default copy to run your system. This means that if something happens to the FAT, your system will go down. The backup copy can be used only by low level disk utilities when repairing the default FAT. However, if something happens to the default FAT on a FAT32 system, the system will continue to run by using the backup copy until the default can be repaired.

So far this worked, I haven't had any more card corruption and my card has been on and running for a couple of weeks now.

For data recovery, if there is something important lost, I recommend you to use your card in your card reader and one of the many rescue software available for Windows (for instance Easy Recovery). In those cases like I described above, "only" the FAT table got corrupted, which means that the actual files are still intact.

I know your feeling, Bob. I was not very amused either. Speaking of Palm... I've not had a single data corruption using a Memory Stick with my old Sony Clie.

PS: for data backup I am using Sprite Backup Enterprise, which allows me to pack the files of my entire Axim including SD Card and send them via Wireless to my remote desktop workstation.

brahamt · 12-18-2004, 06:45 PM

Interesting thread given that one of my main motivations in moving from the Palm platform is because my 512MB SD card got corrupted and became completely unuseable. I think it happened when I used a card reader, but who knows. I prefer CF anyway, so I might use that instead when I get my Axim. It is also cheaper anyway.

Bob Russell · 12-18-2004, 10:31 PM

Thks for the info Alex. I just went ahead and reformatted because I think most of my SD contents was pretty static. (Another good reason to look for a good incremental backup utility.) All my iSilo stuff goes to the internal flash ROM, and my RAM seems to pretty much hold all the "status" type files. I may have lost something, but I'll probably never know for sure, and it's probabaly not too important. Thank God for the full 12-11 backup I did.

This seems like the dirty little secret of the PDA/electronics world. Can you imagine how upset someone would be if they lost a gig of precious photos? (E.g. a professional photographer at a big event!!!!)

Haven't actually finished the copy of my data back to the newly reformatted card, but I assume it will work. (You will certainly hear more from me if it doesn't!!)

I wonder if some of the incremental cost of Sony Memory Cards is actually quality and not just monopoly-like powers in a smaller market? Nah...

Will check out Sprite backup also.

Interesting on the site you referred to that is shows T3s seem to have a lot of problems with SD cards..... I wonder how the T5 is doing with them? Funny that Thierry was having problems on the Palm side and switched to PPC, and I'm having problems on this side and am tempted to switch back to Palm! But with my gadgets I'm happily fickle because it means I'm free to play with whatever I enjoy most at the time

While we're on the subject of cards, I gotta figure two slots are really nice also for, say keeping programs and stuff that should always be available on one card, and using the other card for MP3s and videos that are your current listening and viewing. That would be a big plus for a Zodiac on the Palm side, and your Dell on the PPC side. It does have two slots, doesn't it?

cbarnett · 12-19-2004, 06:02 PM

I've had troubles in the past with SD cards. My first 2 cards were Fuji branded 128 MB cards, and both caused _untold_ problems! Up to 50% of the time, transferring a file to or from the card would corrupt it. It was almost unusable. At first I thought the first card was a dud and exchanged it for another of the same brand, and exactly the same thing happened. I then exchanged that card for my current 128MB card (Pretec brand) and _never_ had a problem with it, though it was a bit slow.

I also have a Sandisk 256MB card, and it's worked without a single problem in over 6 months. I think the brand of the card can have a major impact, and sometimes it just might be a bum card. If it happens more than once in a short period of time, really consider exchanging it for another if you can. A good card repair utility is handy too (I use Storage Tools).

I'd really like a second card slot too....maybe next device....

Craig.

Bob Russell · 12-21-2004, 01:14 AM

I think I may know why the sd card was getting corrupted...
My "nice" new/refurbished Toshiba PPC is DYING!!!!!
In fact, it doesn't exactly take a Sherlock Holmes to figure that out because currently ... it is completely DEAD! Screen won't come on at all. Double Aaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh!

It is dead and won't turn on and won't reset and won't re-initialize. I'm going to let it charge overnight just in case it's a battery issue. But it was fully charged a couple hrs ago and I haven't used it since then, so I doubt that it the problem. I'll also check to see if I can wiggle any connectors. But it looks fried. We'll see what Toshiba custoer service has to say. Kind of makes you stop and think now before plopping down $500 or so on a new one.

I guess hardcopy Outlook calendar and tasks printouts will have to do for a few days until I can load all my data back to my Clie or get the Toshiba fixed or buy something new.

You know, given the amount of time I've spent on this silly gadget, I think I'm going minimalist next time I set up a pda. Sure I have fun tinkering, but at some point you've just gotta be economical with your hobby-related time. Besides, things usually work better when you don't push the envelope and just do the basic routine stuff. You know what I mean. The core apps. For me that means... iSilo, eReader, PI PIMs, e-Sword, HandyShopper, Tombo and eWallet. Plus maybe a game or two and something else neat like Sunrise. On a Palm, if I have to go back, that means iSilo, eReader, DateBk5 and PIMs, MyBible, HandyShopper, ShadowPlan and eWallet. Maybe I'll have better luck just leaving it at that.

And I gotta say that even though I'm pretty sure it's not a PPC vs Palm thing, but just a bad piece of refurbished hardware, I just don't get that warm gushy feeling about the dark side anymore. It's feeling darker and darker every day no matter how bright and pretty the screens look. (And so much for saving a buck with refurbished!)

Luck of the draw? Maybe. But I just didn't have this much problem with my PalmOS devices. It will be interesting to see how I feel in a few days after I have time for it all to sink in, and hear from Toshiba.

brahamt · 12-21-2004, 08:35 AM

Bob,

I am so sorry to hear about your woes with your new PPC. I am sure that you are correct that it was just an unfortunate break with the hardware. Sometimes, it is something silly, so don't lose hope yet.

Bob Russell · 12-21-2004, 09:52 AM

Thanks Thierry. It's wierd printing out some of the info and working off of paper!
I contacted Toshiba support this am, and they were really nice. They are sending a replacement and a prepaid return shipping label. Should get it this week. I had all but decided to go buy a T5 after work. Now I'm pondering what to do. Save money or get to use Palm again. Don't have any idea what I'll choose yet!

One neat tidbit... (hope I don't get anyone in trouble)... the service rep mentioned that there are rumors of a new Toshiba PDA coming out! I really hope so. Of course they had announced no more PDAs, so I had given up on them in the PDA world. Seemed for a while that it would just be HP and Dell. But the Toshiba hardware, minus the failure I just experienced, is really nice.

Alexander Turcic · 12-21-2004, 04:23 PM

Bob couldn't you have forced the rep to stay longer with you on the phone and to reveal more info on a new Toshiba PDA?

J/k. I think you should wait a bit longer, and see what the Palm-Linux combination will bring. Especially now that you get your broken Toshiba unit replaced for free (that is a great service!).

Bob Russell · 12-21-2004, 08:15 PM

You know I went to the store today ready to buy a T5... Office Max has a deal on for a free hard case after rebate, plus a $20 or $25 gift card with purchase of a Palm T5. I saw it, and the beautiful screen and I wanted it. They didn't have it in stock, and they only offered me $40 off on the display. (Which hadn't been out very long, and had a screen protector on it so it was in good shape.) I would have bought it for $50 off, but fortunately he said no to that. Anyway, they didn't really have any accessories in stock so that would have been frustrating anyway.

But then I went over to CompUSA and snuck a look at an IPAQ h4700x, or whatever that VGA model with the touchpad is. I couldn't believe my eyes at the quality of the display and how wonderful the apps looked on it, like Pocket Informant for example. Wow! The I took another look at a T5 and realized it's all about the display! (Although I'm not sure I could get used to the touchpad. But oh my it's a great looking PDA. Thierry is going to love his!)

I think the T5 is great, but when it comes right down to it, Pocket Informant beats DateBk5 for me. And VGA slightly beats Hires +. And while the T5 is nice and slim and light, it doesn't even have a voice recorder or WiFi.

Everything else is secondary to me. PalmOS vs Windows Mobile doesn't have a clear winner in my mind. Even the frustrating way that you can't operate a PPC with your fingernail because of how the OK button is often so tight in the corner you can't reach it. Funny, I even like Palm desktop better than Outlook, but I'm probably going to stay with Outlook even if I go to Palm just because it's the focal point of compatibility with everything.

What I hate about Windows Mobile and Windows XP on the desktop really comes down to one thing.... information and settings are hidden and/or confusing. On a Palm, except for the lack of folders for RAM, you know what everything is and where it is. When you enter an appointment, there's really not much to it, and when you look at the screens you see it all. On PPC, you only get these little windows into all the data and most of the time you really don't know what's in there.

On the desktop, at least with programs like Outlook, you really still don't see exactly what's there. Again with Palm desktop, I know exactly what data is in my entry. I can choose views easily that makes it plain and clear. But in Outlook, I'm never quite sure at a glance what's there. That bothers me a lot because the whole purpose of a PDA for me is to make the PIM organization straightforward and easy. I'd give up some features in an instant for the opportunity to make it easier and simpler and clearer.

Okay, before I get too far off topic again, let me just say that this broken PPC has really forced me to think about what's important in a PDA. And the number one thing is clarity/simplicity. I want to not have to think about what's there and how to find it. I want to enter and retrieve data very easily. And I don't really want to see any delays as the PDA works to bring up the next screen of info. I want it to be second nature so I don't have to even think about it. It should just happen while I'm doing other things, just like paper and pencil or a keyboard do for me. Neither Palm nor PPC PIM apps quite do that for me yet. Maybe, yes, I do have some feature requirements, but not the fancy ones. Don't even care about linking or stuff. Just to be able to see it in a useful way, and it seems like all the PIM apps are close, but missing the mark. But like I said PIM views and simplicity is what I want, and Pocket Informant wins for the moment. (But I need to try out KSdatebook and that other new app on PPC whose name escapes me.)

Everything else is fluff. Both platforms have decent task management/launchers available. Both have adequate software choices. Both are fun to use. Both have similar ebook readers. Give me a really great and really simple PIM app that's neat and clean and straightforward with views that I like -- then I'm sold big time.

Anyone else feel like the PIMs are not as useful and easy as they should be? Anyone else feel like PIMs are what it's all about, and everything else is fluff?

It's been "common wisdom" that nice hires screens are for multimedia and fancy apps like games. I think PIM apps need great screens also. They make things easy and simple and you can see what you need so you don't have to remember the context in your head. I don't like looking at a screen that's just a bit of the picture. PDAs are already like that by nature, so every bit of screen resolution helps a lot.

So for now, I'm sticking with my free Toshiba replacement, but I'm looking for that next PDA already... the one with the really nice screen and simple/effective PIM apps. I just don't know whether that will be Palm or PPC yet.

But then nobody is reading this far anyway, because I've gone on and on and on. Oh well... at least it helped me clarify my thoughts a bit more

drc54 · 12-22-2004, 03:13 AM

Bob,
You've posted a nicely put, "realization" on the never ending quest for the perfect machine. It reminds me of the early days when my company (won't mention the name, but you all can guess), started issueing Laptops for their staff. Back then, we had to go for OS/2, running on 386DX4, 100Mhz with 8Mb machine. But it was sexy, the ThinkPad 755CD. A multimedia box on the go, costing us close to $10,000 a pop

. Well, on the next round was of course, a time to cut cost by categorizing the type of users, are you a normal user, or a power user. Most of us will claim we are power users (and who wouldn't) just so we can get our hands on the biggest, baddest, most powerful LapTop.

I am now on my 5th "refresh cycle" as it's known in the industry, which is when your PC has fully depreciated. I got a not too bad, ThinkPad model T40, running on XP. But on this cycle as the previous one, I really didn't care whether it was the latest and greatest. The lady coordinating this activity sent me an e-mail saying my machine is due for a refresh and she has this particular model on hand. All I needed, was a machine for doing MS Office, e-mail and browsing. And you're right, all the rest are fluffs. She did says if I wanted the lastest model, which was then a model T42, she would order one. The type of work I do involves a lot of travelling, working from customer's location, another branch office, hotel, wee hours of night, etc. So my need is simple, just a machine to get me connected with the rest of my team member. A bigger screen perhaps can help these old eyes read better, but then again, it's bad on my shoulder to carry the extra weight with a bigger size Laptop. So, I settled for the T40.

When it comes to PDA, I have the same question as you. Every time I'm at the Changi airport here in Singapore, I just stare and drool over the latest pocket PC, Palm T5, Zodiac. The only reason I can think of for upgrading my M515 is the screen size. I mean, how many words can a 160 x 160 screen really hold using the smallest font? It's not easy on my eyes for sure. Beyond this improvement, will I have a better way to schedule my calendar, or a means to balance my cheque book? And even for scheduling, my secretary (hello, will they still have secretaries 5 years from now?) does most of my scheduling on our Lotus Notes e-mail system, which of course, gets synchronized with my Palm. This is probably the holly grail for Blackberry, which is to enable a corporate-wide calendar synchronization on a realtime basis. I mean, when I enter a schedule on my palm, and if my secretary also enters another meeting on the same time slot, I'd be in trouble. So, just a better screen and perhaps, a speedier response for $300? Hmm, let me stick with my M515 a bit longer.

And by the way, I still have my unreliable SanDisk 64Mb SD card. I formated with FAT32, but alas, it's not recognized by my M515

. I'll stay with non branded MMC card for the time being. At least, I can use it on my Nokia 6230 phone

, which surprisingly, will not accept an SD card

Alexander Turcic · 12-22-2004, 11:35 AM

Bob I agree with you that the screen makes a HUGE difference. To me, screen size and resolution have always been the #1 factors when buying a PDA.

You should have seen my first reaction when I turned on my Axim X50v. The font is so much more legible than on my Clie. For me, 640x480 plus Cleartype are the way to go when reading full-length e-books.

Bob Russell · 12-22-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander

You should have seen my first reaction when I turned on my Axim X50v.

I feel fortunate I didn't short out the IPAQ vga display model from drooling on it

And the picture show app with sample pics... wow, almost as good, heck, almost better than regular photo paper prints. Really amazing!! Can't wait till it's mainstream.

Bob Russell · 12-22-2004, 08:51 PM

Kudos to Toshiba customer support so far... I called them first thing yesterday morning and I already have my replacement e405 PDA!! (It was sent next day UPS.)

One slight nuisance is that I had to start from scratch, which means they didn't do the flash ROM update to Win Mobile 2003 SE yet. But I'm not complaining because it gave me a chance to "bond" with my new hardware, and how many PDA makers would provide such great support anyway? I don't know if there's any other PPC that lets the user do an OS upgrade like that. And especially a PDA maker that left the business, like Toshiba. Yet they do stellar support, even so far as to offer than ROM upgrade. Boy could Sony learn a lesson or two from them. Sony left the USA PDA market, and they pretty much slammed the door on it and said "Go away and stay away" to their customer base and even the developers for Clie.

Next I did a restore from my last activesync backup. That was wierd because it didn't find my last backup and used a previous one from a few days before. Boy am I glad I did some backups!!!!! And because it was a bit out-of-date, it had a lot of synchronizing to do. Fortunately, I think everything was still on the desktop and the fresh sync worked well, I hope. I did the internal flash memory refresh manually using Windows file explorer (it's got a neat 32meg flash memory internally for user storage). The SD card I first had problems with was already restored from my previous exercises after the SD failure. Don't know whether the SD card messed up the PPC, or the PPC messed up the SD card, or even if they are independent events. But I hope that I don't have any lingering effects.

One thing I wish I had tried before was a hard reset using the main "secret" on/off switch that is off when a unit ships. You are told to use that to reset the device after the OS ROM update also. I forgot it was even there! The old PDA actually started working last nite. Don't know why, but I didn't do anything different, so I'm pretty sure it's some kind of connection problem or intermittent internal difficulty. In any case, I prefer to take my chances with the new one.

I also put the screen protector on the new one. It transferred pretty nicely, but I didn't try to wash it (lazy and in a hurry) even though it's a Boxwave that's supposed to be washable. Left a little bit of dust, but not enough to really bother me.

I have to say after this experience it only confirmed to me that, right now, I do seem to like PPC better because of the fact that you seem to fit more on a 240x320 PPC screen than a hires screen, even though hires is much crisper. Once you start talking hires+ or vga, everything looks great, but PPC has Pocket Informant, which I think I like slightly better than DateBk5. I'm anxious to see what happens as OS6/Cobalt comes out, and maybe we even see newer versions of the various Palm datebook functions. This Toshiba should be plenty to hold me over till the next generation of PDAs starts to arrive. And's it's also a lot cheaper to keep your current device than to upgrade! But I still consider it temporary to hold me over, so I'm not even going to get a folding keyboard for it.

Just finished one more full backup now that everything looks like it's restored. We'll see if everything works and if I notice anything missing. So far I'm relatively pleased, and my biggest concern is really with the SD card and SD card reader.

One of these days I need to look for "real" 3rd party backup software like the one Alex suggested before. Hope nobody else out there has to face this. And if they do, let's hope other manufacturers handle it as nicely.

What a relief to be back in business!!!!

cbarnett · 12-22-2004, 10:27 PM

Good news, Bob! I'm glad you're back up and running, and with a minimum of time and hassle, from the sounds of it.

I try to do a full backup of my ipaq every day (at least every work day

), which has saved me at least once, so I can't recomment regular backups enough, palm, ppc, linux or whatever!

Craig.

12-21-2004, 01:14 AM	#6
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Aaaaarrrrggggghhhh Part II I think I may know why the sd card was getting corrupted... My "nice" new/refurbished Toshiba PPC is DYING!!!!! In fact, it doesn't exactly take a Sherlock Holmes to figure that out because currently ... it is completely DEAD! Screen won't come on at all. Double Aaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh! It is dead and won't turn on and won't reset and won't re-initialize. I'm going to let it charge overnight just in case it's a battery issue. But it was fully charged a couple hrs ago and I haven't used it since then, so I doubt that it the problem. I'll also check to see if I can wiggle any connectors. But it looks fried. We'll see what Toshiba custoer service has to say. Kind of makes you stop and think now before plopping down $500 or so on a new one. I guess hardcopy Outlook calendar and tasks printouts will have to do for a few days until I can load all my data back to my Clie or get the Toshiba fixed or buy something new. You know, given the amount of time I've spent on this silly gadget, I think I'm going minimalist next time I set up a pda. Sure I have fun tinkering, but at some point you've just gotta be economical with your hobby-related time. Besides, things usually work better when you don't push the envelope and just do the basic routine stuff. You know what I mean. The core apps. For me that means... iSilo, eReader, PI PIMs, e-Sword, HandyShopper, Tombo and eWallet. Plus maybe a game or two and something else neat like Sunrise. On a Palm, if I have to go back, that means iSilo, eReader, DateBk5 and PIMs, MyBible, HandyShopper, ShadowPlan and eWallet. Maybe I'll have better luck just leaving it at that. And I gotta say that even though I'm pretty sure it's not a PPC vs Palm thing, but just a bad piece of refurbished hardware, I just don't get that warm gushy feeling about the dark side anymore. It's feeling darker and darker every day no matter how bright and pretty the screens look. (And so much for saving a buck with refurbished!) Luck of the draw? Maybe. But I just didn't have this much problem with my PalmOS devices. It will be interesting to see how I feel in a few days after I have time for it all to sink in, and hear from Toshiba.

12-22-2004, 08:51 PM	#14
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Next day and back in action!!!! Kudos to Toshiba customer support so far... I called them first thing yesterday morning and I already have my replacement e405 PDA!! (It was sent next day UPS.) One slight nuisance is that I had to start from scratch, which means they didn't do the flash ROM update to Win Mobile 2003 SE yet. But I'm not complaining because it gave me a chance to "bond" with my new hardware, and how many PDA makers would provide such great support anyway? I don't know if there's any other PPC that lets the user do an OS upgrade like that. And especially a PDA maker that left the business, like Toshiba. Yet they do stellar support, even so far as to offer than ROM upgrade. Boy could Sony learn a lesson or two from them. Sony left the USA PDA market, and they pretty much slammed the door on it and said "Go away and stay away" to their customer base and even the developers for Clie. Next I did a restore from my last activesync backup. That was wierd because it didn't find my last backup and used a previous one from a few days before. Boy am I glad I did some backups!!!!! And because it was a bit out-of-date, it had a lot of synchronizing to do. Fortunately, I think everything was still on the desktop and the fresh sync worked well, I hope. I did the internal flash memory refresh manually using Windows file explorer (it's got a neat 32meg flash memory internally for user storage). The SD card I first had problems with was already restored from my previous exercises after the SD failure. Don't know whether the SD card messed up the PPC, or the PPC messed up the SD card, or even if they are independent events. But I hope that I don't have any lingering effects. One thing I wish I had tried before was a hard reset using the main "secret" on/off switch that is off when a unit ships. You are told to use that to reset the device after the OS ROM update also. I forgot it was even there! The old PDA actually started working last nite. Don't know why, but I didn't do anything different, so I'm pretty sure it's some kind of connection problem or intermittent internal difficulty. In any case, I prefer to take my chances with the new one. I also put the screen protector on the new one. It transferred pretty nicely, but I didn't try to wash it (lazy and in a hurry) even though it's a Boxwave that's supposed to be washable. Left a little bit of dust, but not enough to really bother me. I have to say after this experience it only confirmed to me that, right now, I do seem to like PPC better because of the fact that you seem to fit more on a 240x320 PPC screen than a hires screen, even though hires is much crisper. Once you start talking hires+ or vga, everything looks great, but PPC has Pocket Informant, which I think I like slightly better than DateBk5. I'm anxious to see what happens as OS6/Cobalt comes out, and maybe we even see newer versions of the various Palm datebook functions. This Toshiba should be plenty to hold me over till the next generation of PDAs starts to arrive. And's it's also a lot cheaper to keep your current device than to upgrade! But I still consider it temporary to hold me over, so I'm not even going to get a folding keyboard for it. Just finished one more full backup now that everything looks like it's restored. We'll see if everything works and if I notice anything missing. So far I'm relatively pleased, and my biggest concern is really with the SD card and SD card reader. One of these days I need to look for "real" 3rd party backup software like the one Alex suggested before. Hope nobody else out there has to face this. And if they do, let's hope other manufacturers handle it as nicely. What a relief to be back in business!!!!

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12-18-2004, 12:48 PM	#1
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Help! Aaaarrrrrrgggghhh - SD unusable!!! If you ask me right now, I hate Pocket PC with a passion. Well, that's just a reaction because... I can't read anything on my SD card. A 1gig card, more than half full, and it's all gone. Doesn't show up in my File Explorer or anywhere else on my PPC. My Dazzle card reader doesn't find anything on it either, and asks me if I want to reformat it? (And for FAT32 at LESS THAN 1gig also... I think it was 975MB.) So anyone have any ideas how I can recover my data or how I should reformat the card? (From WinXP and Dazzle card reader, or elsewhere?) I do have a backup from 12-11, so not totally lost, and the main memory still exists. But even if I restore my SD data, with all the progs that are installed on card, am I going to get corruption or problems due to my main mem files and sd files not being in sync for some programs. i.e. do I have to use my 12-11 recovery all together and then try to get active sync to restore my PIM data on top of that? (Ugh!!!) Any tips would be appreciated, but I'm sure about ready to drive up to the store and buy a T5 or Zodiac right now! I've used Palms for probably 10-15yrs now and never had problems like this!!!!! Aaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!

12-18-2004, 05:47 PM	#2
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	You are not alone... happened to me already TWICE with my Axim and its 1GB Sandisk SD card! First I thought it was the external card reader at fault; but the second card corruption occured when I definitely never left the card out of the PDA. Then I found this, very interesting link: http://sdprob.aximsite.com/ (it also tells you why you don't see the full 1Gb when you reformat your card) The problem of SD card corruption is known and there is as far as I know no fix currently available. What I did afterwards is to reformat my card using FAT32 with a COPY of the FAT table (your format app must support this)! One advantage FAT32 has over FAT16 is that it can use both the default and the copy of the FAT table. Both FAT16 and FAT32 maintain two copies of the actual file allocation table, the default and a backup copy. But the FAT16 system can use only the default copy to run your system. This means that if something happens to the FAT, your system will go down. The backup copy can be used only by low level disk utilities when repairing the default FAT. However, if something happens to the default FAT on a FAT32 system, the system will continue to run by using the backup copy until the default can be repaired. So far this worked, I haven't had any more card corruption and my card has been on and running for a couple of weeks now. For data recovery, if there is something important lost, I recommend you to use your card in your card reader and one of the many rescue software available for Windows (for instance Easy Recovery). In those cases like I described above, "only" the FAT table got corrupted, which means that the actual files are still intact. I know your feeling, Bob. I was not very amused either. Speaking of Palm... I've not had a single data corruption using a Memory Stick with my old Sony Clie. PS: for data backup I am using Sprite Backup Enterprise, which allows me to pack the files of my entire Axim including SD Card and send them via Wireless to my remote desktop workstation.

12-18-2004, 06:45 PM	#3
brahamt Groupie Posts: 165 Karma: 6622 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T3	Interesting thread given that one of my main motivations in moving from the Palm platform is because my 512MB SD card got corrupted and became completely unuseable. I think it happened when I used a card reader, but who knows. I prefer CF anyway, so I might use that instead when I get my Axim. It is also cheaper anyway.

12-18-2004, 10:31 PM	#4
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Thks for the info Alex. I just went ahead and reformatted because I think most of my SD contents was pretty static. (Another good reason to look for a good incremental backup utility.) All my iSilo stuff goes to the internal flash ROM, and my RAM seems to pretty much hold all the "status" type files. I may have lost something, but I'll probably never know for sure, and it's probabaly not too important. Thank God for the full 12-11 backup I did. This seems like the dirty little secret of the PDA/electronics world. Can you imagine how upset someone would be if they lost a gig of precious photos? (E.g. a professional photographer at a big event!!!!) Haven't actually finished the copy of my data back to the newly reformatted card, but I assume it will work. (You will certainly hear more from me if it doesn't!!) I wonder if some of the incremental cost of Sony Memory Cards is actually quality and not just monopoly-like powers in a smaller market? Nah... Will check out Sprite backup also. Interesting on the site you referred to that is shows T3s seem to have a lot of problems with SD cards..... I wonder how the T5 is doing with them? Funny that Thierry was having problems on the Palm side and switched to PPC, and I'm having problems on this side and am tempted to switch back to Palm! But with my gadgets I'm happily fickle because it means I'm free to play with whatever I enjoy most at the time While we're on the subject of cards, I gotta figure two slots are really nice also for, say keeping programs and stuff that should always be available on one card, and using the other card for MP3s and videos that are your current listening and viewing. That would be a big plus for a Zodiac on the Palm side, and your Dell on the PPC side. It does have two slots, doesn't it?

12-19-2004, 06:02 PM	#5
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	I've had troubles in the past with SD cards. My first 2 cards were Fuji branded 128 MB cards, and both caused _untold_ problems! Up to 50% of the time, transferring a file to or from the card would corrupt it. It was almost unusable. At first I thought the first card was a dud and exchanged it for another of the same brand, and exactly the same thing happened. I then exchanged that card for my current 128MB card (Pretec brand) and _never_ had a problem with it, though it was a bit slow. I also have a Sandisk 256MB card, and it's worked without a single problem in over 6 months. I think the brand of the card can have a major impact, and sometimes it just might be a bum card. If it happens more than once in a short period of time, really consider exchanging it for another if you can. A good card repair utility is handy too (I use Storage Tools). I'd really like a second card slot too....maybe next device.... Craig.

12-21-2004, 08:35 AM	#7
brahamt Groupie Posts: 165 Karma: 6622 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T3	Bob, I am so sorry to hear about your woes with your new PPC. I am sure that you are correct that it was just an unfortunate break with the hardware. Sometimes, it is something silly, so don't lose hope yet.

12-21-2004, 09:52 AM	#8
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Thanks Thierry. It's wierd printing out some of the info and working off of paper! I contacted Toshiba support this am, and they were really nice. They are sending a replacement and a prepaid return shipping label. Should get it this week. I had all but decided to go buy a T5 after work. Now I'm pondering what to do. Save money or get to use Palm again. Don't have any idea what I'll choose yet! One neat tidbit... (hope I don't get anyone in trouble)... the service rep mentioned that there are rumors of a new Toshiba PDA coming out! I really hope so. Of course they had announced no more PDAs, so I had given up on them in the PDA world. Seemed for a while that it would just be HP and Dell. But the Toshiba hardware, minus the failure I just experienced, is really nice.

12-21-2004, 04:23 PM	#9
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Bob couldn't you have forced the rep to stay longer with you on the phone and to reveal more info on a new Toshiba PDA? J/k. I think you should wait a bit longer, and see what the Palm-Linux combination will bring. Especially now that you get your broken Toshiba unit replaced for free (that is a great service!).

12-21-2004, 08:15 PM	#10
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	You know I went to the store today ready to buy a T5... Office Max has a deal on for a free hard case after rebate, plus a $20 or $25 gift card with purchase of a Palm T5. I saw it, and the beautiful screen and I wanted it. They didn't have it in stock, and they only offered me $40 off on the display. (Which hadn't been out very long, and had a screen protector on it so it was in good shape.) I would have bought it for $50 off, but fortunately he said no to that. Anyway, they didn't really have any accessories in stock so that would have been frustrating anyway. But then I went over to CompUSA and snuck a look at an IPAQ h4700x, or whatever that VGA model with the touchpad is. I couldn't believe my eyes at the quality of the display and how wonderful the apps looked on it, like Pocket Informant for example. Wow! The I took another look at a T5 and realized it's all about the display! (Although I'm not sure I could get used to the touchpad. But oh my it's a great looking PDA. Thierry is going to love his!) I think the T5 is great, but when it comes right down to it, Pocket Informant beats DateBk5 for me. And VGA slightly beats Hires +. And while the T5 is nice and slim and light, it doesn't even have a voice recorder or WiFi. Everything else is secondary to me. PalmOS vs Windows Mobile doesn't have a clear winner in my mind. Even the frustrating way that you can't operate a PPC with your fingernail because of how the OK button is often so tight in the corner you can't reach it. Funny, I even like Palm desktop better than Outlook, but I'm probably going to stay with Outlook even if I go to Palm just because it's the focal point of compatibility with everything. What I hate about Windows Mobile and Windows XP on the desktop really comes down to one thing.... information and settings are hidden and/or confusing. On a Palm, except for the lack of folders for RAM, you know what everything is and where it is. When you enter an appointment, there's really not much to it, and when you look at the screens you see it all. On PPC, you only get these little windows into all the data and most of the time you really don't know what's in there. On the desktop, at least with programs like Outlook, you really still don't see exactly what's there. Again with Palm desktop, I know exactly what data is in my entry. I can choose views easily that makes it plain and clear. But in Outlook, I'm never quite sure at a glance what's there. That bothers me a lot because the whole purpose of a PDA for me is to make the PIM organization straightforward and easy. I'd give up some features in an instant for the opportunity to make it easier and simpler and clearer. Okay, before I get too far off topic again, let me just say that this broken PPC has really forced me to think about what's important in a PDA. And the number one thing is clarity/simplicity. I want to not have to think about what's there and how to find it. I want to enter and retrieve data very easily. And I don't really want to see any delays as the PDA works to bring up the next screen of info. I want it to be second nature so I don't have to even think about it. It should just happen while I'm doing other things, just like paper and pencil or a keyboard do for me. Neither Palm nor PPC PIM apps quite do that for me yet. Maybe, yes, I do have some feature requirements, but not the fancy ones. Don't even care about linking or stuff. Just to be able to see it in a useful way, and it seems like all the PIM apps are close, but missing the mark. But like I said PIM views and simplicity is what I want, and Pocket Informant wins for the moment. (But I need to try out KSdatebook and that other new app on PPC whose name escapes me.) Everything else is fluff. Both platforms have decent task management/launchers available. Both have adequate software choices. Both are fun to use. Both have similar ebook readers. Give me a really great and really simple PIM app that's neat and clean and straightforward with views that I like -- then I'm sold big time. Anyone else feel like the PIMs are not as useful and easy as they should be? Anyone else feel like PIMs are what it's all about, and everything else is fluff? It's been "common wisdom" that nice hires screens are for multimedia and fancy apps like games. I think PIM apps need great screens also. They make things easy and simple and you can see what you need so you don't have to remember the context in your head. I don't like looking at a screen that's just a bit of the picture. PDAs are already like that by nature, so every bit of screen resolution helps a lot. So for now, I'm sticking with my free Toshiba replacement, but I'm looking for that next PDA already... the one with the really nice screen and simple/effective PIM apps. I just don't know whether that will be Palm or PPC yet. But then nobody is reading this far anyway, because I've gone on and on and on. Oh well... at least it helped me clarify my thoughts a bit more

12-22-2004, 03:13 AM	#11
drc54 Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Singapore Device: Palm m515, now TX	Bob, You've posted a nicely put, "realization" on the never ending quest for the perfect machine. It reminds me of the early days when my company (won't mention the name, but you all can guess), started issueing Laptops for their staff. Back then, we had to go for OS/2, running on 386DX4, 100Mhz with 8Mb machine. But it was sexy, the ThinkPad 755CD. A multimedia box on the go, costing us close to $10,000 a pop . Well, on the next round was of course, a time to cut cost by categorizing the type of users, are you a normal user, or a power user. Most of us will claim we are power users (and who wouldn't) just so we can get our hands on the biggest, baddest, most powerful LapTop. I am now on my 5th "refresh cycle" as it's known in the industry, which is when your PC has fully depreciated. I got a not too bad, ThinkPad model T40, running on XP. But on this cycle as the previous one, I really didn't care whether it was the latest and greatest. The lady coordinating this activity sent me an e-mail saying my machine is due for a refresh and she has this particular model on hand. All I needed, was a machine for doing MS Office, e-mail and browsing. And you're right, all the rest are fluffs. She did says if I wanted the lastest model, which was then a model T42, she would order one. The type of work I do involves a lot of travelling, working from customer's location, another branch office, hotel, wee hours of night, etc. So my need is simple, just a machine to get me connected with the rest of my team member. A bigger screen perhaps can help these old eyes read better, but then again, it's bad on my shoulder to carry the extra weight with a bigger size Laptop. So, I settled for the T40. When it comes to PDA, I have the same question as you. Every time I'm at the Changi airport here in Singapore, I just stare and drool over the latest pocket PC, Palm T5, Zodiac. The only reason I can think of for upgrading my M515 is the screen size. I mean, how many words can a 160 x 160 screen really hold using the smallest font? It's not easy on my eyes for sure. Beyond this improvement, will I have a better way to schedule my calendar, or a means to balance my cheque book? And even for scheduling, my secretary (hello, will they still have secretaries 5 years from now?) does most of my scheduling on our Lotus Notes e-mail system, which of course, gets synchronized with my Palm. This is probably the holly grail for Blackberry, which is to enable a corporate-wide calendar synchronization on a realtime basis. I mean, when I enter a schedule on my palm, and if my secretary also enters another meeting on the same time slot, I'd be in trouble. So, just a better screen and perhaps, a speedier response for $300? Hmm, let me stick with my M515 a bit longer. And by the way, I still have my unreliable SanDisk 64Mb SD card. I formated with FAT32, but alas, it's not recognized by my M515 . I'll stay with non branded MMC card for the time being. At least, I can use it on my Nokia 6230 phone , which surprisingly, will not accept an SD card

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12-22-2004, 11:35 AM	#12
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Bob I agree with you that the screen makes a HUGE difference. To me, screen size and resolution have always been the #1 factors when buying a PDA. You should have seen my first reaction when I turned on my Axim X50v. The font is so much more legible than on my Clie. For me, 640x480 plus Cleartype are the way to go when reading full-length e-books.

12-22-2004, 10:27 PM	#15
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	Good news, Bob! I'm glad you're back up and running, and with a minimum of time and hassle, from the sounds of it. I try to do a full backup of my ipaq every day (at least every work day ), which has saved me at least once, so I can't recomment regular backups enough, palm, ppc, linux or whatever! Craig.