"Ion Book Saver" from CES

[bhartman36]

1) This device is essentially a scanner. People have been using scanners for decades. I doubt there's a legal problem.

2) This device is essentially a scanner. I don't see the point of it unless there's some automation. Looking on Amazon, I can see a page full of multifunction printers (i.e., print, fax, scan, copy) that are less than $100.

[elcreative]

It isn't a scanner, it says it isn't a scanner... it's camera based, takes a page at a time without scanning over the page like scanners. Other point concerns the stand approach, it lets the book be used without going flat and, in many cases, being destroyed just like the high end pro book scanners that use two DSLRs.

Many books I want to scan are over 40-50 years old with brittle-glue holding the pages together... flat scanners, whether multi-function devices or not, destroy such books and since many of my books are worth a damn sight more than a $100 this would be counter-productive... that's why this device is attracting a lot of attention...

Originally Posted by bhartman36

1) This device is essentially a scanner. People have been using scanners for decades. I doubt there's a legal problem.

2) This device is essentially a scanner. I don't see the point of it unless there's some automation. Looking on Amazon, I can see a page full of multifunction printers (i.e., print, fax, scan, copy) that are less than $100.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by elcreative

It isn't a scanner, it says it isn't a scanner... it's camera based, takes a page at a time without scanning over the page like scanners. Other point concerns the stand approach, it lets the book be used without going flat and, in many cases, being destroyed just like the high end pro book scanners that use two DSLRs.

1) It has a "Scan" button.

2) If it's not a scanner, how do you explain this quote?

Scanning a spread takes around seven seconds, Ion said.

It's doing it in a somewhat novel way, that would, as you said, be less destructive to old texts, but yeah, it's a scanner.

[Nexutix]

Call it a cow or buffalo, it yields milk. Period.

[elcreative]

Dead on... and I can't be bothered to argue the finer points of using English words to mean what they actually mean on a site for readers...

Though if bhartman36 wants to swap selective quotes, the next line in the review says, "Each page is saved separately, thanks to the unit's two flash-equipped cameras." I believe the word there is "cameras" which is pretty unambiguous...

Originally Posted by patilsaurabhr

Call it a cow or buffalo, it yields milk. Period.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by patilsaurabhr

Oh really? What for? Reading the books on the go and sharing with friends?

*No offense* That looks like a book pirate's desk.

Backups in case of fire?

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Though if bhartman36 wants to swap selective quotes, the next line in the review says, "Each page is saved separately, thanks to the unit's two flash-equipped cameras." I believe the word there is "cameras" which is pretty unambiguous...

Scanners use CCD arrays. Cameras use CCDs. It's, at bottom, the same technology.

How Scanners Work

How Digital Cameras Work

Like I said, it's got some benefits to a flatbed scanner, but it's doing the same thing. It's only an important point because the things that make this different from a conventional scanner are useful to a rather limited subset of the public.

[elcreative]

The crucial difference, which helps make this device look so attractive, isn't the CCDs, it's the way they're used. Scanners use a different electro-mechanical arrangement to get their images compared to cameras... with this device and price range, it makes the book transfer process far faster, simpler and less damaging to the book... it's even called the "ION Book Saver" The CCDs may be the same technology but the rest isn't...

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Scanners use CCD arrays. Cameras use CCDs. It's, at bottom, the same technology.

[Steven Lake]

Well, I certainly see this as a boon for Project Gutenberg. Now as for converting dead tree to ebook, well, I'm not so sure. But we'll see. I'm always open to new technology.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by elcreative

The crucial difference, which helps make this device look so attractive, isn't the CCDs, it's the way they're used. Scanners use a different electro-mechanical arrangement to get their images compared to cameras... with this device and price range, it makes the book transfer process far faster, simpler and less damaging to the book... it's even called the "ION Book Saver" The CCDs may be the same technology but the rest isn't...

Okay, cool. Is the difference going to be worth it for most people, though, do you think? It seems like a good curator tool, and definitely good for a Gutenberg-sized project, but is it a mainstream device?

I still think that the same things you can say about scanners, vis a vis their copyright implications, you can say for this, so I don't think it should be a novel problem, legally.

[elcreative]

Depends on what's mainstream... their other gadgets have sold pretty well but they were primarily aimed at music transfer to mp3, things like a turntable for vinyl to digital but simplifying the process... either a direct conversion with output to USB or even with burner built in so you put vinyl on platter, blank CD in burner and start... hey presto, audio CD.

I suspect there are enough potential buyers to justify production or they wouldn't have made it but not in the same quantity as the vinyl to mp3 and audio CD devices. That means it's unlikely to drop in price as fast or as far as their audio devices but I still think there will be plenty of takers... and you don't have to be a book collector like me. Think of libraries, currently very limited range of eBooks but what if you can borrow the paper and within 30-40 minutes convert to eformat... may not be entirely legal but you could always comfort yourself with a fair use thought especially if you only have the copy for your personal use... start posting 'em on torrent sights and that's a whole new ballgame...

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Okay, cool. Is the difference going to be worth it for most people, though, do you think? It seems like a good curator tool, and definitely good for a Gutenberg-sized project, but is it a mainstream device?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I still think that the same things you can say about scanners, vis a vis their copyright implications, you can say for this, so I don't think it should be a novel problem, legally.

There are a lot more legal uses for a scanner, and they are never advertised specifically for their illegal uses. This would be more like Realplayer's DVD ripper program. You could argue that a few people might use it to copy their home movies, like people say the Ion might be used to copy their diaries, but if it is advertised for illegal uses that would be the big difference.

[elcreative]

Why this continual harping on possible illegality and banning of the device... much higher end, but with exactly same basic idea, have been around for years and are readily available... search the net. ION haven't suddenly come up with a "new" or "unique" product that's never been done before, just a cheaper version... If £800-£10K versions are readily available without prosecution then it's a bit late to try now... previous usage tends to trump a sudden decision to go to law... and publishers/authors have rather more important things on their mind to start paying lawyers money that they can ill-afford...

[mr ploppy]

None of the others were marketed at consumers. There was no shortage of DVD ripping programs when Realmedia launched theirs on the consumer market. And unlike the others, Realmedia's version actually had copy protection built into it in that any copies you made would not work on anyone else's computer. Didn't stop the film industry from squashing it.

[Freeshadow]

there are enough antic books value several 10-100k and expensive textbooks value several 100s to 1.000s to make the purchase of such devices a well made invest for a bunch of educational institutions of different levels