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Old 10-17-2021, 04:17 PM   #61
Uncle Robin
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
People have been writing grammatically (not to mention syntactically) horrifying letters and hand-written notes to each other for centuries. The text medium is not the enemy of literacy.

Another problem with the "txting is dumbing us down" straw man is that there is almost ZERO relationship between spelling and grammar, despite what pedantic prescriptivist peevers preach.

A typographical error is seldom a grammatical error, and it was interesting to see two posts above complaining about spelling as a sign of decreased literacy both containing spelling errors.

Guy Deutscher's excellent "The Unfolding of Language" has a great section in it that is a collection of "English is going to hell, it's not like the good old days" quotes from Orwell to Swift and beyond. The Venerable Bede probably muttered into his cups about it too.

We live in a world that responded to a pandemic by producing and distributing a whole new class of vaccines in less than 12 months from the appearance of the virus - not the sign of a species that is growing "dumber", imho.

Last edited by Uncle Robin; 10-18-2021 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:22 PM   #62
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I looked up the "definition" literacy; some may be slightly different. If the ability to read, write & communicate is defined as literacy then I am definitely becoming illiterate regarding my less than stellar understanding of the "text" mode of writing. And as language is constantly evolving, then texting may become a "norm"; think of how many words now have different connotations, some of which would/may encounter arguments/fighting & how words mean differently when spoken as to being written.

Spelling changes, local use also changes as is the pronounciations; so what is defined as literacy changes according to locale? I acknowledge that I am becoming illiterate as I do not think I can communicate in the txting mode which may be the new norm.

Then I don't think I saw any definition of literacy that included a dependency on the choice of language. I consider I am very illiterated in French, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese, etc.; may be literate in western USA English, sometimes.
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Old 10-17-2021, 08:22 PM   #63
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I looked up the "definition" literacy; some may be slightly different. If the ability to read, write & communicate is defined as literacy then I am definitely becoming illiterate regarding my less than stellar understanding of the "text" mode of writing. And as language is constantly evolving, then texting may become a "norm"; think of how many words now have different connotations, some of which would/may encounter arguments/fighting & how words mean differently when spoken as to being written.

Spelling changes, local use also changes as is the pronounciations; so what is defined as literacy changes according to locale? I acknowledge that I am becoming illiterate as I do not think I can communicate in the txting mode which may be the new norm.

Then I don't think I saw any definition of literacy that included a dependency on the choice of language. I consider I am very illiterated in French, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese, etc.; may be literate in western USA English, sometimes.

The idea that WRITTEN language is the primary form and the standard for determining competence/mastery is a whole nother issue, of course
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Old 10-18-2021, 06:29 PM   #64
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...despite what pedantic prescriptivist peevers preach.
Are they related to the nattering nabobs of negativism?
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Old 10-18-2021, 06:39 PM   #65
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Are they related to the nattering nabobs of negativism?
congenitally close, conceivably cousins.
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Old 10-22-2021, 05:33 PM   #66
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Another problem with the "txting is dumbing us down" straw man is that there is almost ZERO relationship between spelling and grammar, despite what pedantic prescriptivist peevers preach.
Also, telegraphs.
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Old 10-28-2021, 05:51 PM   #67
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Are E-Books Making Us Stupid?
"Making"? No.

Contributing? Maybe...

The diehard ebook fans on this forum are hopefully an exception to a trend. Meaning, many of us still engage in serious reading and would do so whether in paper books OR ebooks. But I suspect we are not representative. The trend of consuming content on distraction-prone devices, is not helping the rapid decline in attention span, linear thinking, and logical reasoning skills in the general population. It is literally rewiring people's brains starting from childhood. The results across the board on reading, academic performance, test results, etc., are almost universally negative.

I suspect it's not the mere fact of reading a book in an electronic form on a device that is having the effect of dumbing down reading, thinking, and comprehension skills. Rather, it's something to do with the device ITSELF--which is inseparable from the content when you consume it that way--that can become a fundamental distraction. Oh look, see this setting? Hmmm...a new book to buy, on the 'ads' page. Oh, maybe I should browse my library? Hey, whatup with this new backlighting, do I want it brighter or darker? Oops, time to recharge my battery! On and on it goes, as with all such devices. The device itself becomes 'the thing', not the content.

Most people here probably are committed enough readers to plow through that reality about devices, and get down to the business of actually doing sustained reading. But again, I suspect many in the genpop who may be less committed readers, never get that far. The medium itself becomes the message.
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Old 10-28-2021, 05:53 PM   #68
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Old 10-28-2021, 06:26 PM   #69
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Ahhh... gotta love the ol' serious reading vs (I guess) frivolous reading meme. As timeless as it is hogwash.

There are readers and there are non-readers. Self-diagnosed levels of the "seriousness" of one's reading habits are rarely relevant to any discussion.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 10-28-2021 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 10-29-2021, 04:21 AM   #70
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Ahhh... gotta love the ol' serious reading vs (I guess) frivolous reading meme. As timeless as it is hogwash.

There are readers and there are non-readers. Self-diagnosed levels of the "seriousness" of one's reading habits are rarely relevant to any discussion.
But clearly, ad hominem attacks and groundless comments about 'relevance' settle all argument. At least in one mind.
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:19 AM   #71
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But clearly, ad hominem attacks and groundless comments about 'relevance' settle all argument. At least in one mind.
No ad hominem. I attacked your position, not you personally. But otherwise, yes. Of course it settles things in my mind. Just as your post settled them in yours. So it goes.
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