Netronix's 13.3 on Indiegogo $699

[Question Mark]

Well, after several days of repeatedly deleting Hiroshi Takahashi's posts requesting a refund which he repeatedly reposted after each deletion, it looks like the campaigners finally thought it might be a good idea to communicate with him instead of just deleting his posts and hoping that he would vanish.

The fact that he is apparently willing to take a $112 hit to back out of the campaign says a lot about his confidence in the campaigners to deliver on what they have promised. The fact that it has taken the campaigners this long to respond to him, as opposed to simply deleting his posts, perhaps says even more.

Hiroshi Takahashi 11 hours ago

Order ID 262 (my contribution 13.3 e-Reader + Accessories$729+Shipping$60=$789
Easter Sale proposal No 6
1: my contribution exchange new person’s contribute on Easter Sale .
2: new person’s contribute on Easter Sale have a free Accessories and early shipping date.
3:Michael or peter Only Refund $677 to me (profit $112 for you , I decide discount)
Please reply for my proposal ,Michael or peter . Thank you.

Peter Carotenuto Campaigner 3 hours ago

it looks like we need more information from you please check your inbox

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

[Question Mark]

And over on the "support" page...

Jiashu Fang • a day ago

It's frustrating that the developers are leaving many questions unanswered, especially the questions on this support page. They have time to remove posts on the Indiegogo page but they seem have no time to answer questions from costumers.

Oranges • 2 hours ago

You make a valid point. Just one small correction, however. Michael and Peter aren't the developers. They are simply the campaign organizers.

That said, one would hope that they would be in contact with the developers to find solutions for some of the problems being raised. It is a little bit concerning that neither of them has bothered to post on this "support" page for quite some time.

http://goodereader.com/blog/good-e-reader-13-3-support

[Question Mark]

Looks like Hiroshi Takahashi's persistence paid off and that he MAY be getting his requested refund.

It would be interesting to know if it was for the full amount paid or the $112 hit which he was apparently willing to take to back out of contribution to the campaign.

Hiroshi Takahashi 4 hours ago

Dear Peter

Do you have a problem ?
No notice to me from Paypal.
l wait 3 business days .

hiroshi takahashi

[plusz]

Just out of curiosity - did they finally released the entire source code of the reader firmware?

I was very interested in it due to the promise of the fully open source device, but since I was skeptical I decided to wait until it really shows up. I cannot find it anywhere... Anyway, nowadays I would not invest 700$ in this unit even if it was fully open source.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by plusz

Just out of curiosity - did they finally released the entire source code of the reader firmware?

I was very interested in it due to the promise of the fully open source device, but since I was skeptical I decided to wait until it really shows up. I cannot find it anywhere... Anyway, nowadays I would not invest 700$ in this unit even if it was fully open source.

No, they haven't yet made the source code available and one backer has publicly questioned their ability to do so. Unsurprisingly, they have not responded to the that post which was made more than three weeks ago..

Pierre Gallaz 24 days ago

I had originally planned on buying a 6.8 device as well, and had actually pledged money on your kickstarter campaign. But the lack of open source firmware, and the lack of android upgrade (not even Amazon Kindle installs on this version of android nowadays!), while both of which were part of your original pitch, made me choose to wait instead. I wish things were moving faster on the software side, and I’m wondering if you really have the control of it. Making the firmware open source is easy!

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

They have. however, processed at least one refund from a very disgruntled backer. So they are perhaps not entirely without some scruples.

Hiroshi Takahashi 12 days ago

Dear Peter and Michael 　Time is now . I waited 8 week . Please start a refund procedure . Thank you.——————————————-
Your response:I am sorry, we cannot refund you for at least 8 weeks. In 8 weeks we will refund you. Please wait.———————————-
My offer:ID 262 (contribution 13.3 e-Reader + Accessories$729+Shipping$60=$789 My contribution exchange new person’s contribute on Easter Sale . Michael or peter Only Refund $677 to me (profit $112 for you , I decide discount)


Michael Kozlowski Campaigner 12 days ago

We are beginning the refund process now, please check your email.


Hiroshi Takahashi 11 days ago

Thank you


Hiroshi Takahashi 11 days ago

I get refund , Thank you.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by bigshed

I would be more willing to give these guys the benefit of the doubt that it is just incompetence with regard to supply chain knowledge as opposed to actively trying to screw their customers.

Yes and no. There definitely does seem to be incompetence in regard to supply chain knowledge. However, they have also provided a lot of misleading information. For example, they said they would provide the source code which they haven't done and which they may not be in a position to do so. They allowed people to think that they would be able to physically attach an external keyboard despite knowing for a very long time that this would not be possible. They have claimed that users can install millions of Android apps despite knowing that many, if not most, of these apps are not compatible with the version of Android the device is running... In short, they have knowingly mislead their backers.

Originally Posted by bigshed

Onyx on the other hand are selling a lame duck at a premium price.. take a look at the Max Carta on youtube, how sluggish it is, and how it doesn't work half the time (deletion, page switching, even file opening) and tell me it is worth $700.

The difference is that the Netronix maybe give it a year or two and they might have a polished product. I don't expect Onyx will ever learn their lesson because they simply don't care.

Can't speak to the Max Carta. However, I have the Max and it has functioned reasonably well for me to date. There have also been a number of updates to the software since it was first released which have improved the functionality of the device. Hopefully, more will be forthcoming.

Haven't seen any updates yet for the Netronix device. Certainly, some of the backers for the 13.3 " GoodEreader seem less than satisfied. A $750 paperweight is not an encouraging descriptor.

Daniel 1 day ago

When will you be upgrading to Android 5.0 firmware? Right now the firmware is buggy and crashes every time I try to use it. So I have a $750 paperweight. I’m hoping the upgrade in firmware will be this summer like you promised and that it will resolve some of these issues. Can you comment on when you expect to release Android 5.0 firmware?

...

rafepurnell 2 days ago

Lack of response, lack of delivery of software, millions of android apps that will not run… totally fed up…
This has been a mistake.. waste of time… and money..

The Onyx Boox Max Carta does what this was supposed to.. and amazon can deliver tomorrow… oooo they have a returns policy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZTGULb4w54

The Good e-Reader is not strong enough to even function as a drinks tray..
See less


Peter Carotenuto Campaigner 1 day ago

The Onyx is slow, unresponsive, and is bound by the pen with no touch layer.


rafepurnell 1 day ago

So how about some transparency here? Something you don't seem to be good at. Are you looking into the software issues or Netronix? Are you guys working on resolving the issues with the play store? Are you having google play services issues resolved? Are you going to release a fixed firmware? No communications from your side means that I am still running manually downloaded older versions of apps that i have to hunt for in archive sites. I have been running with these for months and months now.


rafepurnell 1 day ago

This wonderful device is nothing with the software, and I do believe this to be a wonderful device which is let down by my list above. So right now I am looking for other uses for it. Today I discovered it to be an excellent mouse mat. In the mean time I am going to look for a device with support.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

[Question Mark]

An interesting comment from their review of the Max Carta:

What I have learned from our own Good e-Reader 13.3 is that Android 4.04 is 100% compatible with E-Readers, later versions cause a ton of problems and require extensive development time to upgrade the OS, and make sure everything works. In the end, it simply isn’t worth it. The types of people that spend between $600 and $1,000 for an e-reader are few and far between.

https://goodereader.com/blog/electro...x-carta-review

It almost sounds like they have thrown the towel in on upgrading the OS... I wonder if they will now make the code public as was previously promised.

[franzli]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

An interesting comment from their review of the Max Carta:



It almost sounds like they have thrown the towel in on upgrading the OS... I wonder if they will now make the code public as was previously promised.

I was thinking the same thing when I read that... Seems like they might not be updating to 5.1 after all... Shame

[Question Mark]

Peter Carotenuto Campaigner 3 days ago

Jasper, once again, please stop spamming our page with the same response, we have responded to your first post below thank you

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

Loved this comment from one of the campaigners. Perhaps if they responded to the questions and emails of their backers, there would be no need to spam. It almost seems that spamming is the only way to get them to respond.

Certainly, they seem to be actively ignoring one of their backers who has consistently seemed to be quite reasonable.

rkgemini 1 day ago


No response to messages here. We’ve all been asking for an update. But a simple reply letting us know the total units received is not given. Way to treat your paying customers. No response to emails as well. Can you please do the courtesy of answering our genuine inquiries?

...

rkgemini 3 days ago


A few of us had asked yesterday about our order coming in this batch or not. But no replies to that. But there’s reply to other messages. Way to go. From your reluctance it is clear that this batch doesn’t have enough units to meet all the orders. I’m putting in my request to refund my money for this order. I’ve waited 8 months with no definite information on when this will ship. No more waiting for me. Please refund my money.

...

rkgemini 4 days ago


How many units have been received in this shipment? How many can receive their orders? Please provide this additional info which is very useful to the contributors. My order number is 551.is there any possibility of mine getting delivered in this current batch? I think it’s highly unlikely, but still…

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

[Question Mark]

Looks like tensions are beginning to boil over...

Michael Kozlowski Campaigner 2 days ago

Hello, according to our terms and conditions we cannot provide refunds at this time. https://goodereader.com/blog/good-e-...and-conditions The funds raised with your pre-order may be partially invested in product development. Delivery is contingent on sufficient funds to complete the development of the products. Hence, Good e-Reader cannot guarantee that you will receive a full refund in all cases as the funds raised by your pre-order may be lost, either fully or partially.


Katherine McNamara 5 hours ago

Hello there, I’ve noticed that you told some folks in the order #500’s that they should be part of this latest batch you just received. I’m order #421 and it doesn’t appear that my order has been updated with a tracking number. I believe I should be getting it before the 500’s, no? I’m about to hit my year anniversary of ordering this product.

From the looks of this, it’s going out of order from the folks who ordered first. Your “terms and conditions” about a refund doesn’t override my credit card’s terms and conditions when goods are not received. I need an actual tracking number to make me think I’ll be getting this product or I’ll have to dispute it with my credit card company. Thankfully, they have a pretty open policy about goods that are not received and while you might not give a refund directly, the end result is that you do not get my money. To anyone else, if they are refusing to give you a refund and refusing to give you a shipping date, CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY. I have successfully disputed charges 1+ year old before when I proved the goods were not sent to me.

Katherine McNamara

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

[Question Mark]

It now says "Closed" on the GoodEreader's Indiegogo page.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments

Wonder if they shut the campaign down themselves or if they were shut down due to complaints from angry backers...

Not sure what that means for all the unfulfilled orders, but it does not bode well seeing as how it was a flexible campaign.

[Question Mark]

Apparently, Good eReader has voluntarily stopped taking new orders to focus on their existing ones.

Hey Everyone! We have decided to stop taking new orders for the Good e-Reader 13.3 so we can focus on fulfilling existing ones. Once we are all caught up we will take new orders again.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...r#/updates/all

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind that. Why can't they fulfill existing orders while still taking care of new ones?

Also, what will happen to those backers who had pledged funds towards the 6.8" device? From their existing orders, it seems that they have not yet reached sufficient numbers to place an order with Netronix...

I also wonder how they will be able to fulfill any Amazon orders which they list as arriving between Sept 27 and Oct 4.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...&condition=all

The drama continues. Riveting to watch from the sidelines. Glad I didn't subscribe.

[xhacker]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

Apparently, Good eReader has voluntarily stopped taking new orders to focus on their existing ones.



I'm not sure I understand the logic behind that. Why can't they fulfill existing orders while still taking care of new ones?

Also, what will happen to those backers who had pledged funds towards the 6.8" device? From their existing orders, it seems that they have not yet reached sufficient numbers to place an order with Netronix...

I also wonder how they will be able to fulfill any Amazon orders which they list as arriving between Sept 27 and Oct 4.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...&condition=all

The drama continues. Riveting to watch from the sidelines. Glad I didn't subscribe.

They have quietly started selling from their own store. https://goodereader.com/blog/product...-13-3-e-reader Perhaps indigogo suspended their account or perhaps the Hundreds of negative comments and release of better hardware by remarkable, Sony and Onyx, meant sales had dried up. Who knows. Is this incompetence or criminality ? Anyone with a conscience would stop selling such a terrible product to the public.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by xhacker

They have quietly started selling from their own store. https://goodereader.com/blog/product...-13-3-e-reader

So we now know that they didn't voluntarily suspend their Indiegogo campaign to concentrate on fulfilling existing orders as they have claimed. Otherwise, why start taking orders on both Amazon and their own website.

On their Amazon page, it says nothing about preorders and when I added their ereader to my cart to see what would happen, it went through and a popup said there were only 13 other units available. Naturally, I then emptied my cart. So I would assume that there are 14 units available unless anyone has made a purchase.

If they were really concerned about getting merchandise to existing backers, one would have hoped that those 14 units would have gone to people who have been patiently waiting, some for over a year.

Originally Posted by xhacker

Who knows. Is this incompetence or criminality ?

While it might not be criminal, it seems to be highly unethical. Would you trust somebody who engaged in such business practices?

Originally Posted by xhacker

Anyone with a conscience would stop selling such a terrible product to the public.

I'm not so sure that it is a terrible device. Netronix is a reputable ereader manufacturer. As such, although the device will likely have some bugs in the software, seems that all tablets and ereaders do, I am sure it functions well enough. Indeed, a number of the backers who were lucky enough to receive a device have said that they are well enough pleased with it.

So instead of calling it a terrible product, it would probably be more apt to describe it as a limited product when compared to the newer devices coming out and in the works. The same as my Max.

The difference is that updates have been released for the Max to fix some of the bugs and to improve functionality. And, I believe, such updates are set to continue. There are also people to turn to to help resolve issues as they arise. So although my Max might be limited when compared to newer models, it is still very functional.

As for the folks at Good eReader, given their behaviour throughout their campaign, would you have much confidence in them to release updates and resolve issues? What would happen if your very expensive ereader were to suddenly freeze or experience some other problem rendering it unusable? Who could you turn to for assistance since they don't seem to respond to emails, they don't offer a forum for users to exchange advice and they can't even fulfill their orders in proper sequence?

[Question Mark]

In an update to thier closed Indiegogo campaign, Michael from Good eReader wrote that they had decided to suspend their campaign to focus on existing orders:

Hey Everyone! We have decided to stop taking new orders for the Good e-Reader 13.3 so we can focus on fulfilling existing ones. Once we are all caught up we will take new orders again.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...r#/updates/all[

They then quietly entered into the Amazon marketplace and opened up their own store on their blog to continue taking new orders.

Now that that information has been made public, both here and on their former Inddiegogo campaign page, Peter from Good eReader is attempting to spin a different story, now admitting that it was Indiegogo who shut down their campaign:

Hey kazu, thanks for your comment. We're still working on every thing since our in demand was shut down. Instead of just disappearing without saying a word, we've (very publicly) moved over to 2 new platforms, Amazon and our own sales division. We are not "embezzelers" we've been in the Ereader game for 10 years. And we're still here. No one has made of like kings here. We still make videos, and we're still supporting our units

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/1...ader#/comments[

Not sure how Peter can claim that they "very publicly" moved over to the two other platforms given Michael's earlier statement and the fact that up until now they never posted any information about the move.

So, what is the real story and what is going on?

Are they criminals who have swindled their backers?

I suspect not as I hope they will eventually fulfill those orders or offer refunds. They have sent out some devices (they claim that "over the course of the past year... we have shipped out over 400 units to our backers." https://goodereader.com/blog/product...-13-3-e-reader). And they have given at least one refund that I am aware of.

Are they incompetent?

They would seem to have demonstrated that quite clearly. They have fumbled a successful campaign and alienated former supporters and have also frightened off would be supporters.

Are they unethical?

Again, they have shown that quite glaringly on numerous occasions.

That all said, I hope they are able to sort things out and make an honest business out of it. I wouldn't buy anything from them, but I would like to see more of these devices on the market to encourage other manufacturers to become more innovative rather than complacent.