Amazon behaving badly (again)

darryl · 04-07-2018, 08:47 PM

I love Amazon. They do so many things well, but not all of them. And some things they do really terribly. I'm going to post two links for discussion, one to The Passive Voice and one to the source of the PV story which it links to.

http://www.thepassivevoice.com/?p=87654

WSAZ Story

At this stage I will simply observe that Amazon not only makes these decisions without any prior notice, which is understandable in certain circumstances, but then fail to give any meaningful information about why the decision was made. In a large number of cases it seems that account holders, or authors and sellers in other cases, are innocent of any wrongdoing, yet suffer not only inconvenience but in the case of sellers or authors real and sometimes substantial economic damage. An apology, even if given, is not sufficient in these situations. And the apology in this case seems to misrepresent events. It seems the account holders involved were simply accused of breaching unspecified terms of service.

Amazon needs to get their act together. They are now so big in the US that cancelling people's accounts can have a very real effect. Anecdotally Prime has been a boon to much of the rural US.

I still love Amazon, and IMHO they do far more good than otherwise. However, I do warn them, for the little it is worth, that they need to get their act together on this type of thing, not only for the sake of their own business but because they have become too big and are attracting too much attention to keep getting away with it. If they don't fix it, I expect that Government will step in and do so. And when they do, they traditionally overreach and fix many other perceived problems at the same time, many of which are often not problems and don't need fixing.

GtrsRGr8 · 04-07-2018, 09:59 PM

Here's another report about this development.

I don't know if there's anything additional in the report over your report, 'cause I'm no longer a Prime member, and didn't see any point in reading it--I dropped them before they could drop me.

gimble · 04-08-2018, 09:09 AM

I have seen cases where they closed accounts due to abuse (card fraud, excessive returns), but looks like this might be the first for alleged "review kickbacks". Their action remains puzzling however, as it is unclear what they have achieved other than customer backlash.

I am no legal expert, but according to their "terms and conditions" Amazon can pretty much close any account whatsoever at their discretion. Which makes it all the more important to not be overly dependent on any one of these service providers and enable competition where possible.

steven168 · 04-08-2018, 09:30 AM

the person say should use prepaid card instead

DiapDealer · 04-08-2018, 09:30 AM

Sounds a bit like a tempest in a thimble to me. *shrug*

Buy intelligently, return very rarely--and only for real cause--(which ties directly to #1), and don't review. That's the winning formula for being able to buy from Amazon forever (which is by no means an inherent right, by the way).

gimble · 04-08-2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sounds a bit like a tempest in a thimble to me. *shrug*

Buy intelligently, return very rarely--and only for real cause--(which ties directly to #1), and don't review. That's the winning formula for being able to buy from Amazon forever (which is by no means an inherent right, by the way).

The issue isn't about the right to buy from them as such, but what happens to services you already paid for when they close an account - what about the books, audiobooks, music, movies, apps, etc that are tied to the account through their DRM?

GlenBarrington · 04-08-2018, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sounds a bit like a tempest in a thimble to me. *shrug*

Buy intelligently, return very rarely--and only for real cause--(which ties directly to #1), and don't review. That's the winning formula for being able to buy from Amazon forever (which is by no means an inherent right, by the way).

WAY too much self censored behavior in my eyes, just to allow Bezos to get wealthier. I intend to continue to use Amazon exactly the way I have been using it, and if they don't want my money any more, well then, that's OK by me!

I'm not anti-Amazon, BTW, I'm just not gonna worry about making sure I fit their 'good customer' profile! I will review to my heart's content, return a product intelligently and when necessary. I shop there because it's convenient. It's an 'arm's length transaction' for both me and Amazon, it's ok if one of us doesn't want to do business with the other.

tubemonkey · 04-08-2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Buy intelligently, return very rarely--and only for real cause--(which ties directly to #1), and don't review. That's the winning formula for being able to buy from Amazon forever (which is by no means an inherent right, by the way).

Not counting exchanges for defective/damaged items, I've only returned one item in my 8 year history with Amazon; and I'll never do it again because of their misrepresentations. As a result, I now sit on potential purchases for several days before deciding if I want them or not. That cooling off period usually results in no purchase.

Josieb1 · 04-08-2018, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Not counting exchanges for defective/damaged items, I've only returned one item in my 8 year history with Amazon; and I'll never do it again because of their misrepresentations. As a result, I now sit on potential purchases for several days before deciding if I want them or not. That cooling off period usually results in no purchase.

A few years ago I hit issues with our account due to too many returns. I still buy a lot but like tubemonkey says I only buy items I know I want and I rarely return. I don't buy from third party sellers at all and rarely review. Touch wood we are now okay, but I also ensure that anything digital I buy is backed up promptly and liberated. Losing our Amazon account wouldn't be a disaster but it would be inconvenient.

DiapDealer · 04-08-2018, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

WAY too much self censored behavior in my eyes, just to allow Bezos to get wealthier. I intend to continue to use Amazon exactly the way I have been using it, and if they don't want my money any more, well then, that's OK by me!

No self-censoring at all on my part. In fact, I find it quite liberating. I give not the slightest hoot about Bezos' wealth. It's irrelevant to just about everything.

It's just the way I prefer to do business with Amazon and any online entity. They're not there for me to love or hate (or help, or hinder); they're there for me to use. And I intend to do so indefinitely. For my own entirely selfish needs.

DiapDealer · 04-08-2018, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

As a result, I now sit on potential purchases for several days before deciding if I want them or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I still buy a lot but like tubemonkey says I only buy items I know I want and I rarely return.

All of which is a part of how I define "buying intelligently."

pwalker8 · 04-09-2018, 05:09 AM

My issues with Amazon over the years has been their policy of using the cheapest delivery method, causing them to miss the "guaranteed" delivery date and their customer service. In general, as long as you don't care when a package arrives, don't have to deal with their customer service and don't do something that triggers them playing hardball, Amazon works. Amazon is all about cost savings not quality or reliability.

Wearever · 04-09-2018, 08:55 AM

I had a problem cancelling a recent order from Amazon. I cancelled the order about an hr. after, usually well within the cancelling period. I got the we are trying our best to cancel this order message and they will contact me when the status changed. The next day the item was still processing 12 hrs. later and not shipped. I cancelled again. It was 13 hrs. since I first cancelled. Got the same message, the item shipped 20 hrs. after I cancelled the first time. It's coming today. I don't know why it wasn't cancelled only one hr. after ordering. It sat for almost 24hrs. in a warehouse and still shipped. Now I'll need to return it.

tubemonkey · 04-09-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wearever

It's coming today. I don't know why it wasn't cancelled only one hr. after ordering. It sat for almost 24hrs. in a warehouse and still shipped. Now I'll need to return it.

And you'll probably be responsible for return shipping charges.

Wearever · 04-09-2018, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

And you'll probably be responsible for return shipping charges.

I hope not. I ordered with prime with free returns, but who knows ? This is the first time a cancelled order was shipped to me. I know if I waited till the next day then it would have been too late to cancel on 2 day shipping, but this was only one hr. after. Maybe I should switch back to delayed shipping ? Just in case.

04-07-2018, 09:59 PM	#2
GtrsRGr8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,334 Karma: 27815322 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Southeastern U.S., ya'll Device: Kindle; Kindle (10.1.1) for PC; Kindle Cloud Reader	Here's another report about this development. I don't know if there's anything additional in the report over your report, 'cause I'm no longer a Prime member, and didn't see any point in reading it--I dropped them before they could drop me. Last edited by GtrsRGr8; 04-07-2018 at 10:04 PM.

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04-07-2018, 08:47 PM	#1
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	Amazon behaving badly (again) I love Amazon. They do so many things well, but not all of them. And some things they do really terribly. I'm going to post two links for discussion, one to The Passive Voice and one to the source of the PV story which it links to. http://www.thepassivevoice.com/?p=87654 WSAZ Story At this stage I will simply observe that Amazon not only makes these decisions without any prior notice, which is understandable in certain circumstances, but then fail to give any meaningful information about why the decision was made. In a large number of cases it seems that account holders, or authors and sellers in other cases, are innocent of any wrongdoing, yet suffer not only inconvenience but in the case of sellers or authors real and sometimes substantial economic damage. An apology, even if given, is not sufficient in these situations. And the apology in this case seems to misrepresent events. It seems the account holders involved were simply accused of breaching unspecified terms of service. Amazon needs to get their act together. They are now so big in the US that cancelling people's accounts can have a very real effect. Anecdotally Prime has been a boon to much of the rural US. I still love Amazon, and IMHO they do far more good than otherwise. However, I do warn them, for the little it is worth, that they need to get their act together on this type of thing, not only for the sake of their own business but because they have become too big and are attracting too much attention to keep getting away with it. If they don't fix it, I expect that Government will step in and do so. And when they do, they traditionally overreach and fix many other perceived problems at the same time, many of which are often not problems and don't need fixing. Last edited by darryl; 04-07-2018 at 08:51 PM.

04-08-2018, 09:09 AM	#3
gimble Connoisseur Posts: 77 Karma: 8236 Join Date: Mar 2018 Device: Kindle, Boox	I have seen cases where they closed accounts due to abuse (card fraud, excessive returns), but looks like this might be the first for alleged "review kickbacks". Their action remains puzzling however, as it is unclear what they have achieved other than customer backlash. I am no legal expert, but according to their "terms and conditions" Amazon can pretty much close any account whatsoever at their discretion. Which makes it all the more important to not be overly dependent on any one of these service providers and enable competition where possible.

04-08-2018, 09:30 AM	#4
steven168 Zealot Posts: 121 Karma: 5508 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Singapore Device: Kindle Paperwhite 1 & 3	the person say should use prepaid card instead

04-08-2018, 09:30 AM	#5
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,547 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Sounds a bit like a tempest in a thimble to me. shrug Buy intelligently, return very rarely--and only for real cause--(which ties directly to #1), and don't review. That's the winning formula for being able to buy from Amazon forever (which is by no means an inherent right, by the way).

04-09-2018, 05:09 AM	#12
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	My issues with Amazon over the years has been their policy of using the cheapest delivery method, causing them to miss the "guaranteed" delivery date and their customer service. In general, as long as you don't care when a package arrives, don't have to deal with their customer service and don't do something that triggers them playing hardball, Amazon works. Amazon is all about cost savings not quality or reliability.

04-09-2018, 08:55 AM	#13
Wearever Wizard Posts: 1,063 Karma: 10944084 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: New England Device: Oasis 2,Voyage, Kindlle hdx 8.9, Ipad mini 4. Air 2	I had a problem cancelling a recent order from Amazon. I cancelled the order about an hr. after, usually well within the cancelling period. I got the we are trying our best to cancel this order message and they will contact me when the status changed. The next day the item was still processing 12 hrs. later and not shipped. I cancelled again. It was 13 hrs. since I first cancelled. Got the same message, the item shipped 20 hrs. after I cancelled the first time. It's coming today. I don't know why it wasn't cancelled only one hr. after ordering. It sat for almost 24hrs. in a warehouse and still shipped. Now I'll need to return it.

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