underline links removed i sigil but showing in kindle previewer

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

KOReader can display footnotes as footnotes (at the bottom of the current screen)

That is only a problem for "back to text" links, not for "go to note" links. And it's only a problem if the reading application does not have a "back to previous location" function (such applications should be forbidden). I've worked around this problem by providing multiple "back to ..." links in the note. (By the way, I've also done the equivalent in a paper book, providing back references for citations, e.g. "[cited in pages x, y and z]".)

It seems to me, Jellby mon sweetie--and my memory could be playing tricks on me--but it seems to me that at one point, due to a very difficult customer, who also wanted what were effectively many-to-one links and backlinks, that we (my firm) tried something like the divs, above.

It also seems to me that (like some other things in Previewer) what appeared to work, in KP3, didn't work when the book was actually published. I know that there were issues with the older devices.

But, honestly...that's thousands of books ago and I simply don't remember. Now, we just tell clients that many-to-one requests don't work that great, and that numbering the "back" options, or identifying them some other way "back to 'page' 34," "back to 'page' 79" and so on, are just too bloody clunky. (Like glossaries, where the author wants every instance of term X linked to the glossary definition for it. Try dealing with "back" links THEN.)

If it works for the poster, (shrug)...who has shown that he's not really interested in discussing this--it's his book. He's not a pro who's making books that way for other people.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

If you are making an eBook for use on a Kindle, it would be very useful to be able to specify what it works on instead of having to make it also work with Mobi. That way, popup footnotes could be used and problem solved for Kindles. But Amazon says you cannot do that and because of that, you (the eBook maker) are screwed. So why include features that cannot be taken advantage of?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you are making an eBook for use on a Kindle, it would be very useful to be able to specify what it works on instead of having to make it also work with Mobi. That way, popup footnotes could be used and problem solved for Kindles. But Amazon says you cannot do that and because of that, you (the eBook maker) are screwed. So why include features that cannot be taken advantage of?

Yes, but you can't. Not for the "mechanical" stuff like that. You can use MQs for formatting, to some extent, but the footnotes are a whole other kettle of fish. I can't tell you how many customers I have that want to use popup functionality for not-footnotes and we tell them that we can code them--but it's Amazon that eventually 'decides' on the popup or not. I must get this request for popped-up x-refs 3x weekly.

Anyway, back to the discussion--it's not "only" MOBI that has problems Jon. Everybody here knows you hate the old KF7/MOBI format. But it exists. And frankly, KCR isn't a whole lot better, in terms of functionality, than the old MOBI, either. (I believe it still doesn't display embedded fonts, right?). You also have to deal with the desktop readers (K4...) and the phone apps. It's all well and good for people to "target" Fires, but we have no reliable data on how many people truly own those, compared to eInks.

And no reliable data on how many older, not-upgraded devices that won't support pop-ups, are still extant. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to deal with, but as I've said here before, I'd still rather have to deal with this than see Amazon turn into Apple, cavalierly ripping people off by discarding OSes, software, apps and devices, just to force those selfsame people to buy the "next thing."

FWIW.

Hitch

[Jellby]

Why are we discussing Kindles in the ePub forum?

[ghmerrill]

Originally Posted by ghmerrill

Note that the <p>...</p> is one thing that will work as a note structure, but of course others will too -- including list elements <div> elements themselves, etc.

This turns out not to be true in general, and it appears to be wisest to use vanilla <div> structures to handle all the forward/backward linking. But I leave the details of exploring the various possibilities to others, although most here don't seem inclined to employ such a technique anyway.

I've edited the original posting to reflect this discovery.

So I think to sum up: This seems to work well for my purposes on the Kindle Previewer, and so I have some hope for it on various Kindle devices pending testing. Other people either THINK it won't work, or absolutely that it can't work, or maybe it might could work (Southern subjunctive), but they can't remember whether what they tried worked or didn't, or worked in some cases and not in others, or ... whatever.

So after being told it can't work, doesn't work, couldn't work, and shouldn't even be tried, and then providing free source code to y'all, I'm happy with the result that my amateur self has reached at this point for my own purposes, and I can't imagine what any additional "discussion" could amount to other than a repeat of all the speculation already seen. Being a pretty committed empiricist and pragmatist, I prefer to make things work if I can, and not speculate or opine where it doesn't matter. But I have benefited from some of the comments and observations here, and for that I'm grateful. And I do have to actually finish this book and not just talk about it.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ghmerrill

This turns out not to be true in general, and it appears to be wisest to use vanilla <div> structures to handle all the forward/backward linking. But I leave the details of exploring the various possibilities to others, although most here don't seem inclined to employ such a technique anyway.

I've edited the original posting to reflect this discovery.

So I think to sum up: This seems to work well for my purposes on the Kindle Previewer, and so I have some hope for it on various Kindle devices pending testing. Other people either THINK it won't work, or absolutely that it can't work, or maybe it might could work (Southern subjunctive), but they can't remember whether what they tried worked or didn't, or worked in some cases and not in others, or ... whatever.

So after being told it can't work, doesn't work, couldn't work, and shouldn't even be tried, and then providing free source code to y'all, I'm happy with the result that my amateur self has reached at this point for my own purposes, and I can't imagine what any additional "discussion" could amount to other than a repeat of all the speculation already seen. Being a pretty committed empiricist and pragmatist, I prefer to make things work if I can, and not speculate or opine where it doesn't matter. But I have benefited from some of the comments and observations here, and for that I'm grateful. And I do have to actually finish this book and not just talk about it.

I have one last question to ask and I wouldn't ask it, but the "how" around your testing is not clear to me.

Links inside a popup footnote don't work right?. So your backlinks, presumably, aren't there and aren't functional if they are.

How is this being tested, then? Do you mean that when the footnote pops up, in KP3, that you then click "go to footnotes" and then click the back button, to take you back to the spot in question?

Is that right?

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

And no reliable data on how many older, not-upgraded devices that won't support pop-ups, are still extant. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to deal with, but as I've said here before, I'd still rather have to deal with this than see Amazon turn into Apple, cavalierly ripping people off by discarding OSes, software, apps and devices, just to force those selfsame people to buy the "next thing."

FWIW.

Hitch

As for keeping old devices going, the best company on that front that I know of is Kobo. They keep most of their old devices up-to-date with the firmware.