Apple Targeting Amazon

[tubemonkey]

The only way I'll ever get an iPhone is if Apple starts making no-contract models for $10. Until then, Apple's off limits.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Apple was fairly steady in the $160 range for much of 2017. It jumped to the $175 range in early November, stayed there until late Jan, when it dropped back to $155 for a week because of the concern of a trade war, then jump back to $178 in late Feb when the trade war failed to materialize, it then dropped down to the $165 range this week mostly because the earning call is coming up and Apple's stock always falls before an earning call. Apple is expected to beat last year's 1st quarter earning by quite a bit.

Most companies stock prices are down from the beginning of the year when it was at an all time high. On paper, I lost around $20K in the space of a couple of days in Feb when the big market correction happened. Most of it's come back since then. That's just the way the stock market works. It goes up and down.

Apple has bet big on getting into the market in China and India. Personally, I don't think that's going to go well for them, both countries tend to protect local companies. They also have issues with the expectation of what's going to be the new big block buster product such as the iPhone or iPad (hint, they are really raking it in on services, just like Amazon is).

Amazon has it's own issues as does Facebook and Google.

None of these companies are in any particular danger. They are simply in the process of moving from being fast growing companies to established companies. Apple and Amazon in particular seems to be in more or less the same place. They are both continuing to try things, some which work, some which don't.

Apple loses $64 billion in stock value as Wall Street is in 'full panic mode' on iPhone demand

There is a lot of Pain and Panic yet to come.

[John F]

Originally Posted by frahse

Apple loses $64 billion in stock value as Wall Street is in 'full panic mode' on iPhone demand

There is a lot of Pain and Panic yet to come.

And Amazon is only down 48 billion? Is Wall Street on 3/4 panic mode with Amazon?

[johnnyb]

Back to topic: I am invested in the Apple ecosystem, but I'm also missing the eink complementary device for outdoors. Anytime I try reading my iPad in the sun, I am very happy that I also brought my Kindle.
I would even get one if the sold it as a high-priced accessory that only works in conjunction with the iBooks store and iCloud.
That btw way is not how loyal I am to Apple but how good I think their tablet, phone and Mac apps work together.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by John F

And Amazon is only down 48 billion? Is Wall Street on 3/4 panic mode with Amazon?

I have been with Amazon a long time. Yes it goes up and down also though most people think that Apple's problems are dragging all of FANG down.

History show that Apple has usually not swung so far up and down. Well yes, UP but not DOWN.

This is the important thought, the major theme about Apple. Yes Apple sells laptops, tablets, watches, even TVs and now an over priced home talking device (like Echo or Google home) but existentially Apple is a one trick Pony. "The iPhone."

Amazon might have problems with its new house robot, self driving cars, home drone delivery or its Prime offerings, or its Halogen Convection Ovens, or even with it's Washington Post but NO WAY
does ONE PRODUCT'S POSSIBLE FAILING OR FALLING SHORT affect it like a failure of Apple users slowing of buying new phones will affect Apple.

It basically comes down to 1) is the desire to have the latest device greater than the realization 2) what does this latest very expensive device add to my life? Every thing (this used to be the stock answer), Anything or not much?

I admit Apple is trying to add value to it's products, but it is still mostly dependent on selling iPhones.

I find no joy in Apple's problems or FANG's problems. I hope it doesn't appear so. I am well diversified in the stock market and have only Mutual funds, or ETFs where I am long. except commodies: Crude Oil, Gold, Silver. There I am short and long.

But then I look at some of the ETFs I have and their holdings of Apple:

VGT #1 holding Apple 13.8%
IGM #2 holding Apple 8.5%
MGK #1 holding Apple 8.7%
VONG #1 holding Apple 6.85%
VOOG #1 holding Apple 7.45%
and so on and on.

HEY MAN, I FEEL THE PAIN!!!

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by frahse

I have been with Amazon a long time. Yes it goes up and down also though most people think that Apple's problems are dragging all of FANG down.

History show that Apple has usually not swung so far up and down. Well yes, UP but not DOWN.

This is the important thought, the major theme about Apple. Yes Apple sells laptops, tablets, watches, even TVs and now an over priced home talking device (like Echo or Google home) but existentially Apple is a one trick Pony. "The iPhone."

Amazon might have problems with its new house robot, self driving cars, home drone delivery or its Prime offerings, or its Halogen Convection Ovens, or even with it's Washington Post but NO WAY
does ONE PRODUCT'S POSSIBLE FAILING OR FALLING SHORT affect it like a failure of Apple users slowing of buying new phones will affect Apple.

It basically comes down to 1) is the desire to have the latest device greater than the realization 2) what does this latest very expensive device add to my life? Every thing (this used to be the stock answer), Anything or not much?

I admit Apple is trying to add value to it's products, but it is still mostly dependent on selling iPhones.

I find no joy in Apple's problems or FANG's problems. I hope it doesn't appear so. I am well diversified in the stock market and have only Mutual funds, or ETFs where I am long. except commodies: Crude Oil, Gold, Silver. There I am short and long.

But then I look at some of the ETFs I have and their holdings of Apple:

VGT #1 holding Apple 13.8%
IGM #2 holding Apple 8.5%
MGK #1 holding Apple 8.7%
VONG #1 holding Apple 6.85%
VOOG #1 holding Apple 7.45%
and so on and on.

HEY MAN, I FEEL THE PAIN!!!

If you have been following Apple stocks you would realize that Apple goes through this pretty much before every earnings call. Most of the panic is based on rumors about various vendors reporting slow downs and the analyst assuming this is based on a slow down of Apple orders.

[kyteflyer]

Is the Apple sky falling *again*??? Cant count the number of times I've heard rumours of doom and gloom over the past 15 years.

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

The only way I'll ever get an iPhone is if Apple starts making no-contract models for $10. Until then, Apple's off limits.

Can you get no contract phones over there for $10? Wow. I'll stay with my iPhone.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

Can you get no contract phones over there for $10? Wow. I'll stay with my iPhone.

Yep. I have a couple of them ranging in price from $10 to $20. They're both Android and not activated. It's like having an Android iPod touch. I use them mostly for music and audiobooks.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

If you have been following Apple stocks you would realize that Apple goes through this pretty much before every earnings call. Most of the panic is based on rumors about various vendors reporting slow downs and the analyst assuming this is based on a slow down of Apple orders.

Finally a answer from Apple's Tim Cook for all those Apple fans saying "Say it ain't so Tim. Say it ain't so.

(note, I couldn't insert a link in. May try later.)

From Axios: Tim Cook: "iPhone X is no dud."

Exerpt: "The iPhone X is a beloved product," he said.

He compared the situation to when your team wins the Super Bowl but you might have wished they scored a few more points.

Well, that seems pretty strong, but let us wait and see what the analysts say...

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by frahse

Finally a answer from Apple's Tim Cook for all those Apple fans saying "Say it ain't so Tim. Say it ain't so.

(note, I couldn't insert a link in. May try later.)

From Axios: Tim Cook: "iPhone X is no dud."

Exerpt: "The iPhone X is a beloved product," he said.

He compared the situation to when your team wins the Super Bowl but you might have wished they scored a few more points.

Well, that seems pretty strong, but let us wait and see what the analysts say...

Let's see revenue up 16% with a record $13.82 billion profit for the quarter, with revenue from iPhones sales up 14% for the quarter.

Can't say that I'm real thrilled about the $100 B stock buy back plan as a bone to investors. Steve Jobs always resisted the pressure of stock holder demands (we want all your money and we want it now!), but Cook's first act after Job's died was to start feeding the beast. Investors always want more, more, more. Too many CEO's forget that investors are just one of the many stakeholders when it comes to corporations. You have to keep customers and employees happy as well if you want a healthy company. I guarantee that $100 B will be the new starting point for investor demands from Apple and stocks will plummet if Apple doesn't match that next year.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Let's see revenue up 16% with a record $13.82 billion profit for the quarter, with revenue from iPhones sales up 14% for the quarter.

Can't say that I'm real thrilled about the $100 B stock buy back plan as a bone to investors. Steve Jobs always resisted the pressure of stock holder demands (we want all your money and we want it now!), but Cook's first act after Job's died was to start feeding the beast. Investors always want more, more, more. Too many CEO's forget that investors are just one of the many stakeholders when it comes to corporations. You have to keep customers and employees happy as well if you want a healthy company. I guarantee that $100 B will be the new starting point for investor demands from Apple and stocks will plummet if Apple doesn't match that next year.

I saw where Apple's pile of cash offshore had dropped to about 300B. But I don't know when that "tally" was made.
OK here is that link: Apple's cash hoard falls to $267.2 billion

Steve (and I) believe that the stockpile of cash from profits is to make newer and better products, to provide better service, to increase your competitive edge. To drive the weak out of the business!

Buffet believes in deep moats full of alligators around your enterprise.

You can dig a bery deep and broad moat and buy a lot of Gators for 100B. Hey, Hey!

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by frahse

I saw where Apple's pile of cash offshore had dropped to about 300B. But I don't know when that "tally" was made.
OK here is that link: Apple's cash hoard falls to $267.2 billion

Steve (and I) believe that the stockpile of cash from profits is to make newer and better products, to provide better service, to increase your competitive edge. To drive the weak out of the business!

Buffet believes in deep moats full of alligators around your enterprise.

You can dig a bery deep and broad moat and buy a lot of Gators for 100B. Hey, Hey!

It's been a while since they were over 300B. Part of the point of the changes in the tax law last year was to allow companies to bring back those funds sitting overseas and spend it.

I would rather see Apple spend it on new product development than investor payoffs. One of the big differences between Jobs and Cook is that Jobs was very focused on developing high quality products, while Cook is more of a inventory/investor sort of guy. It's not all that unusual for this sort of thing to happen when you shift from a founder with a vision to a non vision guy. Amazon is famous for plowing money back into the company rather than making big investor payoffs, though I think that is starting to change a bit.

[leebase]

I see that Apple derangement Syndrome is alive and well. The ebook market is under effective monopoly control by Amazon. But leaving old dead horses in their grave...

All my reading devices are Apple. I subscribe to Apple Music and Apple Music Match. I'll rent movies from whatever device is convenient...since it's just rental and you don't keep it.

But Amazon's security has been hacked and Apple's has not (or apparently was hacked and then re-buttoned up). Regardless...Apple sells the same books for the same prices as Amazon. Ergo...it's better for me to stick with the vendor where I can "liberate" my books should I ever need to (haven't in a really long time).

I also buy music CD's from Amazon because they "auto-rip" them placing the digital files in my Amazon library. It's nice (and yet odd) as and CD I'm buying is most surely a gift for someone else.

FWIW - the HomePod sounds really nice for it's size and price. My wife who isn't a technophile of any sort, nor an audiophile...she instantly could tell the big step up in sound quality from my $400 bluetooth speaker from Hardon Kardon.