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Old 09-09-2015, 04:16 PM   #16
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I don't agree. Just because they 'forgot' to properly implement footnotes in the ePUB specs is not a reason not to use them.
My dislike for footnotes is stylistic as well as utilitarian. Academic references aside, if something is worth noting it is worthy of inclusion in the narrative.

But this is speaking as a writer, or maybe as an editor. Not as a converter.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:24 PM   #17
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My dislike for footnotes is stylistic as well as utilitarian. Academic references aside, if something is worth noting it is worthy of inclusion in the narrative.

But this is speaking as a writer, or maybe as an editor. Not as a converter.
- surely Non-fiction aside - annotations placed in line are a distraction and very like to provoke - "yeah I know that already" - too many of them and a reviewer going to mark it down.

BR
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:54 PM   #18
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- surely Non-fiction aside - annotations placed in line are a distraction and very like to provoke - "yeah I know that already" - too many of them and a reviewer going to mark it down.

BR
Any more so than annotations placed not inline? The story-teller's job is to build his world from the narrative. If any necessary information is not inherent - maybe events in a previous book of a series - there can be a foreword.

But I repeat, this is my stylistic preference, not a rule.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by exaltedwombat View Post
Any more so than annotations placed not inline? The story-teller's job is to build his world from the narrative. If any necessary information is not inherent - maybe events in a previous book of a series - there can be a foreword.

But I repeat, this is my stylistic preference, not a rule.
Well, I don't know if you are familiar with the works of Jack Vance (if not, you should)? He writes SF/Fantasy and often uses footnotes to give more details of certain aspects (culture, language, objects, history, etc). They enrich the story in a big way, but don't have a place in the narrative. The story can be read without it. If it was placed within the narrative, it would draw away from the actual story told. With footnotes he leaves the choice to the reader.

For academic or non-fiction it is totally different.
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Old 04-18-2016, 05:51 AM   #20
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So is there a way in Sigil to auto-move all footnotes to the end of the chapter or file? Some regex?

They are like this:
Code:
<p class="Body">– Zaiste oto powód do dumy! – zadrwił starzec. – Czyż nie cieszy nas wszystkich waleczny wyczyn naszych braci Danów, którzy przesiedzieli kilka szturmów w cieniu swych wielkich armat, a swój tryumfalny pościg za wrogiem zakończyli zajęciem marnego Sřnderjyllandu<span class="Footnote-Reference sgc-1"><a class="footnote-link" href="#footnote-69804-1" id="footnote-69804-1-backlink">1</a></span>! Cześć wam i chwała, bohaterowie ze Skanii i Jutlandii!</p>

    <div class="footnote">
      <p class="Body-Footnote"><a class="footnote-anchor" href="#footnote-69804-1-backlink" id="footnote-69804-1">1</a> Sřnderjylland (dań.) – Szlezwik</p>
    </div>

    <p class="Body">– Nikt przed nami nie zadał mu klęski! – obruszył się mąż z oczyma niczym gwiazdy.</p>
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:20 AM   #21
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Oops. Replied to a very old post. Sorry!

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Old 04-18-2016, 05:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mietek81 View Post
So is there a way in Sigil to auto-move all footnotes to the end of the chapter or file? Some regex?

They are like this:
Code:
<p class="Body">– Zaiste oto powód do dumy! – zadrwił starzec. – Czyż nie cieszy nas wszystkich waleczny wyczyn naszych braci Danów, którzy przesiedzieli kilka szturmów w cieniu swych wielkich armat, a swój tryumfalny pościg za wrogiem zakończyli zajęciem marnego Sřnderjyllandu<span class="Footnote-Reference sgc-1"><a class="footnote-link" href="#footnote-69804-1" id="footnote-69804-1-backlink">1</a></span>! Cześć wam i chwała, bohaterowie ze Skanii i Jutlandii!</p>

    <div class="footnote">
      <p class="Body-Footnote"><a class="footnote-anchor" href="#footnote-69804-1-backlink" id="footnote-69804-1">1</a> Sřnderjylland (dań.) – Szlezwik</p>
    </div>

    <p class="Body">– Nikt przed nami nie zadał mu klęski! – obruszył się mąż z oczyma niczym gwiazdy.</p>
I don't see how. That would take 2 searches minimum:
1) to 'clip' the footnote
2) another to locate </body> (assumes file end) and insert just above

This all assumes that the footnotes are found top to bottom (and a trap to prevent an endless loop) when it hits the first moved.
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:57 PM   #23
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So is there a way in Sigil to auto-move all footnotes to the end of the chapter or file? Some regex?
@mietek81: BetterRed says half-jokingly, "You could convert the EPUB to DOCX and use Word's footnote↔endnote conversion tool ==>> Convert footnotes to endnotes and vice versa. And then convert the DOCX back to EPUB."

Maybe OOo Writer has something similar.

BR
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:02 PM   #24
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@mietek81: BetterRed says half-jokingly, "You could convert the EPUB to DOCX and use Word's footnote↔endnote conversion tool ==>> Convert footnotes to endnotes and vice versa. And then convert the DOCX back to EPUB."
Is there a Word macro/tool that can tell if there is a superscripted number as the first thing in the paragraph, and automatically change that into a Word Footnote? Or do you still have to manually mark them all?
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:08 PM   #25
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Speaking of which....Now that Sigil is getting better support for ePub 3, wouldn't it be better to incorporate/support the "pop-out note"? Pop-outs would be way-mo-betta than either footnotes or endnotes in an ebook format.

I have to admit I haven't researched that capability much, but IIRC that is an ePub3 capability generally, rather than a specific device, isn't it??
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Old 04-18-2016, 11:17 PM   #26
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Pop-outs would be way-mo-betta than either footnotes or endnotes in an ebook format.
Popup footnotes? Bleh!

Back in 2014 we had a thorough discussion in the topic of footnotes in ebooks:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=241177

in Post #47, Faterson laid out what I believe are the 4 different methods for displaying footnotes in an ebook:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...26#post2972226

I believe all 4 are equally valid preferences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
I have to admit I haven't researched that capability much, but IIRC that is an ePub3 capability generally, rather than a specific device, isn't it??
Yeah, in EPUB3 they want you to wrap everything in <a epub:type="noteref"> + <aside epub:type="footnote">:

http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/gu...html/notes.php

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 04-18-2016 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:34 AM   #27
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Is there a Word macro/tool that can tell if there is a superscripted number as the first thing in the paragraph, and automatically change that into a Word Footnote? Or do you still have to manually mark them all?
I assume you're in the context of yet another badly broken book.

At the beginning of a para? Surely most often they're hard up against the end of a sentence, often the last in a paragraph; and occasionally in the middle of a sentence. Ah-ha you mean the number at the beginning of the note

How about 2 passes - first pass looks for the numbers in the text at end of sentences, and creates empty footnotes; second pass looks for ^p followed by superscripted digit(s) - writes para(s) 'somewhere' then searches for the empty footnote with matching number and dumps content of somewhere into it.

All it needs now is Sander to implement

Aside - within the context of reflowable formats surely there ought be no such thing as foot, chapter, and end notes - they're notes, pure and simple. I'd like mine in a sidebar that tracks the book i.e. clickfree notes. What I don't want is one at a time popups

BR

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Old 04-19-2016, 01:39 AM   #28
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Yeah, in EPUB3 they want you to wrap everything in <a epub:type="noteref"> + <aside epub:type="footnote">:

http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/gu...html/notes.php
It doesn't appear to be too much more work than the current way of adding footnotes, especially if you use clips.

Has anyone tried a book with the epub:type and or <aside> tags in an epub2 reader - would the reader barf, or just ignore them. If it ignored them, then that could be something easily added to all epubs that would give better options (pop-outs) on apps/readers that supported them, and normal options on those that didn't (graceful degredation)/

Well I guess that gives me something to work on this weekend!

Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:39 AM   #29
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How about 2 passes - first pass looks for the numbers in the text at end of sentences, and creates empty footnotes; second pass looks for ^p followed by superscripted digit(s) - writes para(s) 'somewhere' then searches for the empty footnote with matching number and dumps content of somewhere into it.
Ahhh, I thought you had some sort of Word Footnote workflow already worked up.

I am not knowledgeable in any sort of Word workflows (since I just work directly in the EPUBs... and only use Word for a final spellcheck + Toxaris's EPUB Tools for Dialogue Check).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Aside - within the context of reflowable formats surely there ought be no such thing as foot, chapter, and end notes - they're notes, pure and simple. I'd like mine in a sidebar that tracks the book i.e. clickfree notes. What I don't want is one at a time popups.
Indeed, which is why a reader should be allowed a choice between those 4 types. Faterson already categorized that one under "display footnotes using a split-screen".

I recommend everyone interested in ebook footnotes go read that thread. It is one of my favorites!

(And I agree.. the popup bubbles... BLEH! I would only allow like them if it was like Wikipedia, where it still displays the Endnotes at the very end of the articles.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
Has anyone tried a book with the epub:type and or <aside> tags in an epub2 reader - would the reader barf, or just ignore them. If it ignored them, then that could be something easily added to all epubs that would give better options (pop-outs) on apps/readers that supported them, and normal options on those that didn't (graceful degredation)/
Here are some of the EPUB3 Samples provided by the IPDF if you wanted to test:

https://idpf.github.io/epub3-samples/samples.html

There was also this recent thread in the EPUB section, "Epub3 Foot- End-notes":

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho....php?p=3276547

and Doitsu posted a sample EPUB3 Footnote file.

Also, to my knowledge, another serious problem with the EPUB3 "epub:type" is that it forces you into one display method (footnote OR rearnote). If it was up to me the ereader itself to be able to override that to a user-defined preference....

Side Note: While I was looking up some EPUB3 footnotes information, I stumbled across this article:

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2015...-and-endnotes/

where Joshua Talent says this (speaking about iBooks):

Quote:
The aside tag must have the epub:type="footnote" attribute. If you use the "rearnote" value, then the pop-up will not work.
Does anyone have the latest version of iBooks to test on to see if this is still true? (I doubt anything has changed within the past few months).

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Well I guess that gives me something to work on this weekend!
Same... I will add it to my list of other things I have to research.

Last I tested on my Nook, it refused to open any sort of EPUB3s (thought it was a corrupt file). Maybe I can hunt down exactly what my Nook doesn't like about EPUB3 files. I suspect a lot of other older EPUB2 readers don't degrade nicely either.

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Old 04-19-2016, 05:07 AM   #30
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@mietek81: BetterRed says half-jokingly, "You could convert the EPUB to DOCX and use Word's footnote↔endnote conversion tool ==>> Convert footnotes to endnotes and vice versa. And then convert the DOCX back to EPUB."

Maybe OOo Writer has something similar.

BR
You don't have to do that step with the add-in. There the footnotes will be converted to endnotes automatically. You can specify if you want the endnotes as a seperate file or at the end of a chapter.

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Is there a Word macro/tool that can tell if there is a superscripted number as the first thing in the paragraph, and automatically change that into a Word Footnote? Or do you still have to manually mark them all?
No, unfortunatly that doesn't exist. There are multiple reasons why... It is also not possible if you import an ePUB, although you can easily find them and correct them manually. For us it is easy, for computers not.
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