<i>, <em> or <span> for italics ?

[Tex2002ans]

People in this topic may be interested in a talk being given on July 24th, 2020:

"Typographical expression of emotions in a variety of alphabet systems" (Jennifer Claudio)

https://www.tug.org/tug2020/program.html

(TUG is the annual LaTeX conference. This year's is going to be fully free + online, and they'll also post the videos at a later date.)

Here's the summary:

Fri, 24 Jul – 14:30 PM | Jennifer Claudio, Typographical expression of emotions in a variety of alphabet systems

Contemporary writing often uses stylistic elements to emphasize words, and in a world of social medias and text messaging, it has potentially become easier to change the shapes or capitalization of a letter rather than using an alternative word with strength of connotation. This convenience lends itself to the nature of the Latin alphabet (or other alphabets with distinct capitalization), but is not a method that occurs in alphabet systems without capital letters. This presentation explores the use of a variety of type attributes including color, typeface, and size which are used to convey emotional charge in a selection of languages including English, Cyrillic, Korean, Arabic, Bangla, as well as the typographic advantages and drawbacks therein.

* * *

I think it's going to be great, and a few other cool MR people are already on board. I'll try to make it live, but if not, I'll be watching all the talks and writing summaries at a future date (for my blog).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

People in this topic may be interested in a talk being given on July 24th, 2020:

Sounds interesting. I'll try to make it if I can. What timezone is it in? You say 14:30pm and the website says 19:30pm.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

People in this topic may be interested in a talk being given on July 24th, 2020:

"Typographical expression of emotions in a variety of alphabet systems" (Jennifer Claudio)

https://www.tug.org/tug2020/program.html

(TUG is the annual LaTeX conference. This year's is going to be fully free + online, and they'll also post the videos at a later date.)

Here's the summary:

Fri, 24 Jul – 14:30 PM | Jennifer Claudio, Typographical expression of emotions in a variety of alphabet systems

Contemporary writing often uses stylistic elements to emphasize words, and in a world of social medias and text messaging, it has potentially become easier to change the shapes or capitalization of a letter rather than using an alternative word with strength of connotation. This convenience lends itself to the nature of the Latin alphabet (or other alphabets with distinct capitalization), but is not a method that occurs in alphabet systems without capital letters. This presentation explores the use of a variety of type attributes including color, typeface, and size which are used to convey emotional charge in a selection of languages including English, Cyrillic, Korean, Arabic, Bangla, as well as the typographic advantages and drawbacks therein.

* * *

I think it's going to be great, and a few other cool MR people are already on board. I'll try to make it live, but if not, I'll be watching all the talks and writing summaries at a future date (for my blog).

I can't seem to find that in the list of sessions. The closest one reads:

Fri, 24 Jul - 11:30AM | Jennifer Claudio, Typographical explorations in two unicase alphabets

We take for granted the convenience of expressing emotions in typography for Latin-based writing, such as using capital letters. This submission explores the use of a variety of type attributes including color, typeface, size, and distortion as it is used to convey emotional charge in Hangul (Korean) and Arabic writing.

(Time zone is America/Vancouver).

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What timezone is it in?

Unsure. Assuming UTC-7 (Vancouver), since that's what the HTML datetime states:

datetime="2020-07-24T11:30:00-07:00"

So that'll be 11:30AM UTC-7.

Here's a little more details about the conference overall:

https://www.tug.org/tug2020/

It'll be held over Zoom.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You say 14:30pm and the website says 19:30pm.

Looks like that schedule auto-updates based on your timezone.

Originally Posted by DNSB

I can't seem to find that in the list of sessions. The closest one reads:

Thanks for finding that.

Yep, this looks to be the latest title/description. The info I pasted was about a week out of date.

Looks like the talk's scope is scaled back quite a bit, but should still hopefully still be interesting.

And heck, could always contact the presenter and get more detailed info. I'd be very interested in seeing all that other e m p h a s i s research.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Agreed. Still hold same views we held back in 2019, "Why is it so hard to preserve blank lines?".

The <hr/> as scenebreak seems a little odd in ebooks.

For web, maybe, since you can more reliably use more complex CSS3 to substitute/override the look.

But in ebooks? Just KISS. Simple asterisks, simple fleuron.

For EPUB3 Fiction specifically, I wonder if you could also just split each scene into individual <section>s as an alternative... (and leave the simple asterisks/image in there, of course! )

Side Note on <hr>: Usually when I scratch my head on some stuff, I head over to HTML5Doctor and see what they say: "The small & hr elements":



Hmmmm... definitely would require more thought + reading into the details/reasoning...

If you are wanting the best accessibility, don't use a <hr/> or a fluron or asterisks. Use a simple graphic image so you can use alt="section break" so a reader would pick up the alt and read "section break".

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you are wanting the best accessibility, don't use a <hr/> or a fluron or asterisks. Use a simple graphic image so you can use alt="section break" so a reader would pick up the alt and read "section break".

No. Read WebAIM's page on alt text.

Decorative images, like fleurons, should be empty.

Side Note: If you want everything there is to know about describing images in your files, I'd also recommend the 3-part series/webinar by DAISY:

• "The Art and Science of Describing Images"

That's over 3 hours of Georgia Institute of Technology tackling all these different use-cases + describing how they create Accessible images for their students.

Side Note #2: JSWolf, I'd recommend rereading this thread from the beginning. You bumped it 2 years later, but you seem to have forgotten all the alt discussion happening in this very same thread.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

No. Read WebAIM's page on alt text.

Decorative images, like fleurons, should be empty.

Side Note: If you want everything there is to know about describing images in your files, I'd also recommend the 3-part series/webinar by DAISY:

• "The Art and Science of Describing Images"

That's over 3 hours of Georgia Institute of Technology tackling all these different use-cases + describing how they create Accessible images for their students.

Side Note #2: JSWolf, I'd recommend rereading this thread from the beginning. You bumped it 2 years later, but you seem to have forgotten all the alt discussion happening in this very same thread.

What would you do so the program reading the book would be able to tell the reader that there is a section break or a new section other then using alt?

[Turtle91]

It’s part of the accessibility standard. If it detects an <hr/> it will do whatever the device/standards require.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

It’s part of the accessibility standard. If it detects an <hr/> it will do whatever the device/standards require.

And so is alt in an <img

[Turtle91]

Read the standard instead of arguing with the answer we give you…

Do you really want an answer or do you want someone to agree with you?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Read the standard instead of arguing with the answer we give you…

Do you really want an answer or do you want someone to agree with you?

If you think I am wrong, what's the purpose of alt in <img for a program reading the book aloud?

[Turtle91]

Its not that the device won't read what's in the alt=""...its that the standard wants people to use <hr>. If you don't like that answer then don't use it. You can use any other non-compliant technique you want to use. But arguing with US about it isn't going to get you anywhere because WE don't control the standard.

If you want to know how every accessibility compliant device reacts when reading an <hr/> then I would suggest either reading the user's manual on all the different devices, or test them out.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Its not that the device won't read what's in the alt=""...its that the standard wants people to use <hr>. If you don't like that answer then don't use it. You can use any other non-compliant technique you want to use. But arguing with US about it isn't going to get you anywhere because WE don't control the standard.

If you want to know how every accessibility compliant device reacts when reading an <hr/> then I would suggest either reading the user's manual on all the different devices, or test them out.

When the program reading the eBook comes to the hr, what is it supposed to do according to the standards?

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Do you really want an answer or do you want someone to agree with you?

After all these years, do you expect an honest answer to that question?

[JSWolf]

I've tried looking up what happens when reading software comes to <hr>. All I've been able to find is that an <hr> should be used for transitions. So what does the reading software say when it comes to the <hr>?