The new PaperWhite snuck out! Incremental update

[latepaul]

IMNSHO, folders are good if:

- you have lots of books on your device
- are comfortable using a file explorer
- are happy to organize those books yourself

I think any of the above takes you down to a minority of ereader users and all together takes you to a very small proportion indeed. Small enough that the "big names" don't care about their preferences.

"But why not simply make it an option? Those users that don't need it don't have to use it." I hear you say. Mainly because customer service costs money and file explorers can and do confuse people. Options confuse people. Don't believe me? Check a few random PCs belonging to other people and see how many have all their documents on the Desktop.

As for epub capability and using the cloud instead of external storage - well, it's almost as if they want to make it easier for you to use their ecosystem isn't it? It's like they make almost no money off you unless you also buy your ebooks from them.

[iamosam]

Originally Posted by HarryT

...But all the big names - Kindle, Sony, Nook, Kobo - have collections, not folders (to the best of my knowledge).

Nook support folders.

[vugtitan]

[QUOTE=mewmartigan;2614017]

Originally Posted by djulian

"You did it! Congratulations! World's best cup of coffee. Great job everybody. It's great to meet you. Hi." -Elf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUPDRnUWeBA)

"This tastes like a crappy cup of coffee.......it is a crappy cup of coffee."
"NO! It's the world's best cup of coffee."


vugtitan,

The Amazon way of doing business has been in place since the early Kindles, I'm not sure why you though they would remove DRM and put in expandable storage with the new PaperWhite.

It is beyond me why anyone would want to store 3000 books on the e-reader. I'm not picking on you, I've seen others post the similar things but I just don't get it. Why not store them on your computer and just email yourself a handful that you are going to read over the next few weeks.
What does the homepage look like with 3,000 books (on a Kindle or Nook)? It must take forever to scroll over to book 2,357 which is the one you want to read today. Yes, I know you can search/file explore for a book on the homescreen but that seems like a lot of extra steps to avoid the 2930 books you have on there but don't plan on reading anytime soon.

it's called freedom of choice and i want to carry my whole library with me.

the problems you mention above are the ones i experienced with the kindle and which is why i don't like it after spending 150 plus 50 for replacement screen.

[QuantumIguana]

Part of the selling point of an e-reader is to be able to carry your library with you. Nested folders aren't exactly new technology, they predate DOS. I'd like to be able to have a science fiction folder, with folders underneath for each author, it would make the device much more manageable. If nested folders are so confusing, why have collections at all?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Nested folders aren't exactly new technology, they predate DOS.

The problem is that most people who use current day computers DON'T predate DOS.

Believe it or not, many people today are still afraid of computers, or even technology in general.

I'd like to be able to have a science fiction folder, with folders underneath for each author, it would make the device much more manageable. If nested folders are so confusing, why have collections at all?

For some people it would be best to just not have any options at all. Some people are confused by everything and anything digital. If it's not physical, they can't use it.

[Breid]

I love my PW but will not be upgrading it. I am intrigued by the new Carta screen, but not convinced that the PW2 is worth upgrading my not-quite 1 year old PW. Considering my gadget obsession, I am very pleased that I am not even slightly tempted by this new kid on the block.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Part of the selling point of an e-reader is to be able to carry your library with you. Nested folders aren't exactly new technology, they predate DOS. I'd like to be able to have a science fiction folder, with folders underneath for each author, it would make the device much more manageable. If nested folders are so confusing, why have collections at all?

Well, honestly I'd rather have e-readers do something intelligent with the existing organizational standard for the medium: metadata. Folders are losing currency because both as a metaphor and as a strategy for organization, they're past their usefulness.

Regardless, ereader software is often ill-prepared to deal with an existing collection at all, unless it's on the vendor's servers. Even then, it tends to assume you only want access to what you just bought or just looked at or what people in your social networks are reading, rather than anything like a library. It has a lot to do with the fact that most devices on the market are storefronts first and readers second. The market is closed to anyone interested in actually designing devices for consumers because the major players are pricing with the intent of making it up in content sales, and therefor taking their hardware and software advice from the marketing dept.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Part of the selling point of an e-reader is to be able to carry your library with you. Nested folders aren't exactly new technology, they predate DOS. I'd like to be able to have a science fiction folder, with folders underneath for each author, it would make the device much more manageable. If nested folders are so confusing, why have collections at all?

And with a Kindle you carry your library of bought Amazon books with you always. The use case of having thousands of books on the Kindle is probably nearly non-existent in real life. Yes, some people hare wants to do it but that is not enough to add a functionality that will confuse a lot of people and give a worse customer experience.

[DrunkenDonkey]

Well the solution is rather simple: dig it deep in the settings, non-tech savvy people won't ever get there and actually implementing folders is so easy they can do in a lunch break. Just provide a setting of collections or folders and be done with.

[crossi]

Just because folders are available doesn't mean that they need to be used. As you say some people have all their files on their desktop. Those sort can leave all their books on their home page. Or just stick to paper books and bookcases. Hard to believe though that anyone who could use a cell phone or read their email or even use a microwave would have much trouble with basic folder usage that has been around for a couple decades at least.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DrunkenDonkey

Well the solution is rather simple: dig it deep in the settings, non-tech savvy people won't ever get there and actually implementing folders is so easy they can do in a lunch break. Just provide a setting of collections or folders and be done with.

No. Nothing is so simple tjat it can be implemented and tester in a lunch brake. And showing filename will lead to complication like what charaters to allow in file name and how to specify that.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by crossi

Just because folders are available doesn't mean that they need to be used. As you say some people have all their files on their desktop. Those sort can leave all their books on their home page. Or just stick to paper books and bookcases. Hard to believe though that anyone who could use a cell phone or read their email or even use a microwave would have much trouble with basic folder usage that has been around for a couple decades at least.

The file metaphor is starting to get obsolete. How do you handle the dynamic meta day for your books stored and viewed as files for example?

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by crossi

Just because folders are available doesn't mean that they need to be used. As you say some people have all their files on their desktop. Those sort can leave all their books on their home page. Or just stick to paper books and bookcases. Hard to believe though that anyone who could use a cell phone or read their email or even use a microwave would have much trouble with basic folder usage that has been around for a couple decades at least.

I think saying folders have been around a long time is misleading. For most of that time computer users were in the minority. For the period when most people began to use PCs many used them in a very limited way and still found them confusing. A power-user might be someone who actually knew how to create and organise folders. The everything-on-the-desktop types are the people who breathed a huge sigh of relief when tablets appeared.

Which is a long winded way of saying that I believe there are plenty of people who can work a microwave but would find folders confusing. Or they might not given enough practice but having it as yet another option makes the thing feel "over-complicated".

I'm not anti-folders but I can understand why the big players want to hide them from the user.

Originally Posted by latepaul

I think saying folders have been around a long time is misleading. For most of that time computer users were in the minority. For the period when most people began to use PCs many used them in a very limited way and still found them confusing. A power-user might be someone who actually knew how to create and organise folders. The everything-on-the-desktop types are the people who breathed a huge sigh of relief when tablets appeared.

Which is a long winded way of saying that I believe there are plenty of people who can work a microwave but would find folders confusing. Or they might not given enough practice but having it as yet another option makes the thing feel "over-complicated".

I'm not anti-folders but I can understand why the big players want to hide them from the user.

Much of that sounds like nonsense to those of us who are old enough to remember the pre-PC era. As PCs became popular in homes people had to learn the concept of directories/folders or they wouldn't have been able to run a DOS PC/Apple II/etc. Command line DOS required knowing where your files were placed. Even those who used Windows and Mac OS later on had to know where to locate their personal files. I have no doubt that the youngest generation of adults might be confused by directories/folders, but Gen X and the Boomers figured that crap out a LONG time ago.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by jswinden

I have no doubt that the youngest generation of adults might be confused by directories/folders, but Gen X and the Boomers figured that crap out a LONG time ago.

The Boomers / Gen X created that stuff, which is even harder than just using it.

It just goes to show that they (we) are a lot smarter than the current generation.

Spoiler:

OK, I couldn't resist so shoot me