The Iron Tower + Two Ways To Appreciate Middle Earth

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Stephen King has never really captured my interest, in part because my interest in Horror based stories is minimal. I do have a few of his works, especially in The Dark Tower series, but with the few bits I have read, his style never grabbed me enough, never sold itself enough.

Not entirely sure why, but could be the psychological element too, which has never appealed to me ... hence you won't find me a fan of The Silence Of The Lambs for instance ... or The Piano ... or The Cell.

Maybe I was spoiled by Michael Moorcock and his fiction ... though the reason may be a leap for some. Some of his work admittedly pretty borderline with me liking, no doubt held up for some kind of tolerance or acceptance, by his other great works ... his cannon being all encompassing in regard to the Eternal Champion ethos.

I am also a huge Robert E. Howard fan.

Perhaps I just need to give Stephen King more of a chance. I do get into (or tolerate) the psychological elements in the stories by Val McDermid and C.J. Box for instance.

I was a big fan of horror movies in my teens to early twenties. I even have a certificate to show I saw the first Friday The 13th movie .... ha ha ha. By my mid twenties though, I lost interest in straight horror, preferring it in a more fantastical or SciFi setting, like the Alien movies ... some Vampire, Werewolf and Zombie are appealing enough too.

Please don't see this as a criticism of those who do like Stephen King or the man himself. To each their own, and he just did not resonate with me ... so far .... never say never.

I've never liked Stephen King either. Not even Eyes of the Dragon. Just not a fan of his writing style, I guess, having read at least 3-4 books from him, and not liking any of them.

But then, I don't like many very popular authors. Steven Erikson, Robert Heinlein, Joe Abercrombie, to name but a few. And not Moorcock, either, actually. I did manage to finish an omnibus volume of his Elric books many years ago, but my reaction to those was pretty much 'meh'.

OTOH, I do like some popular authors. Tolkien, of course. George R.R. Martin. Robert Jordan. Brandon Sanderson. Brent Weeks. And many more.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

OTOH, I do like some popular authors. Tolkien, of course. George R.R. Martin. Robert Jordan. Brandon Sanderson. Brent Weeks. And many more.

I have to admit: I'm not a fan of Tolkien. I love The Hobbit. It's likely my most re-read book, since I discovered it as a child and have read it again every five or six years or so.

But The Lord of the Rings held no interest for me. I thought the movies were spectacular and I read through the books once. But that was enough for me.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But The Lord of the Rings held no interest for me. I thought the movies were spectacular and I read through the books once. But that was enough for me.

The characters in the LoTR aren't particularly interesting. But I liked the atmosphere in the books. And that sense of long, long history, long-forgotten ages. It was sad and somehow chilling. Imho no one has been able to create that sense as well as Tolkien did. I don't get that feeling of deep, ancient history from the Wheel of Time books, for instance, even though I like them.

The Hobbit was my childhood favorite too (in the excellent Estonian translation). And I liked the LoTR movies, have watched them several times.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

...I liked the atmosphere in the books. And that sense of long, long history, long-forgotten ages. It was sad and somehow chilling. Imho no one has been able to create that sense as well as Tolkien did....

Part of that of course is that there was a long, long history, worked out by Tolkien. I appreciate the work he did. It showed in his novels and I did appreciate that. Not many fantasy authors do that kind of work. Or if they do, they just aren't as good as Tolkien.

I think Frank Herbert did a comparable job with Dune. There was lots of stuff where you knew there was more there than what you were 'seeing' as a reader*

I appreciate that sort of back story. I just don't think every last bit of it needs to be explored in future works. Doing that can rob the initial work of some of what made it special.

In movies, George Lucas did a good job of fake history with Star Wars. Talking about the time before the empire and the clone wars. What a neat world. But then the follow-up trilogy happened and a lot of that lost its luster.

*Incidentally, there's a good video comparing the work of Tolkien and Herbert, explaining why their made-up fantasy names don't inadvertently make you laugh the way some others do:

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I appreciate that sort of back story. I just don't think every last bit of it needs to be explored in future works. Doing that can rob the initial work of some of what made it special.

I agree with that.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I appreciate that sort of back story. I just don't think every last bit of it needs to be explored in future works. Doing that can rob the initial work of some of what made it special.

Bingo! Most readers only think they want more, more, more from their favorite works/settings/worlds, when in fact, they really want more of the wonder they felt from reading the first books. None of which can be renewed by shining more and more light into every nook and cranny of the areas that you used to fill with your imagination. The ultimate result of the "more, more, please more" approach is the slow death of the wonder/mystery that attracted you in the first place. Better to be left wanting more than to risk getting it and not liking it. Middle Earth is done. Its creator is dead. Let it be done (except for the re-tellings, of course).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Timboli

My rule of thumb too, certainly for the first read ... not so much after that, where it can add another interesting angle reading it chronologically.

If I am reading a series that's finished or has enough books, I'll go with chronological if it's not written that way. That's how I prefer it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I'd say it was more cause, than any excuse on his part.
Could be due to senility or dementure etc for all we know.
He also always seemed to me, to be pretty meticulous with his writing.

It's actually easier to to create an ePub and using that as the source, convert the ePub using Kindlegen and there you go, KF8 & Mobi.

What I'd like to know is how this was created. What god awful software was used to create just a Mobi eBook.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Bingo! Most readers only think they want more, more, more from their favorite works/settings/worlds, when in fact, they really want more of the wonder they felt from reading the first books. None of which can be renewed by shining more and more light into every nook and cranny of the areas that you used to fill with your imagination. The ultimate result of the "more, more, please more" approach is the slow death of the wonder/mystery that attracted you in the first place. Better to be left wanting more than to risk getting it and not liking it. Middle Earth is done. Its creator is dead. Let it be done (except for the re-tellings, of course).

There are some where more is better. The Discworld series by Terry Pratchett is one such series.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There are some where more is better. The Discworld series by Terry Pratchett is one such series.

Even the best series run out of steam eventually. Some go downhill early, some get better for a while before peaking, but they all get to the point where the most recent offerings are not what they were. And if the author still keeps going, the point will be reached when you wish they'd stopped sooner, because the whole series is tarnished by truly indifferent shading to lousy books.

It varies with the reader, but just as one example, how many wish they'd stopped with GRRM after the third book?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by issybird

It varies with the reader, but just as one example, how many wish they'd stopped with GRRM after the third book?

**Raises both hands**

I learned my lesson with number four, though. Winter can kiss my boots!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Even the best series run out of steam eventually. Some go downhill early, some get better for a while before peaking, but they all get to the point where the most recent offerings are not what they were. And if the author still keeps going, the point will be reached when you wish they'd stopped sooner, because the whole series is tarnished by truly indifferent shading to lousy books.

It varies with the reader, but just as one example, how many wish they'd stopped with GRRM after the third book?

Are there any long series you liked that you enjoyed?

I am still reading Discworld. I've enjoyed most of the books iIve read so far. And I expect that to be the same as I keep reading.

A good example of a series I gave up on was the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by issybird

It varies with the reader, but just as one example, how many wish they'd stopped with GRRM after the third book?

I actually did. I moved on to the TV series, when that came out. I don't think I'll finish the book series now, even if GRRM does. Don't really care anymore. He waited too long.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A good example of a series I gave up on was the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series.

At least they finished it. The same cannot be said of many others, including GRRM.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I actually did. I moved on to the TV series, when that came out. I don't think I'll finish the book series now, even if GRRM does. Don't really care anymore. He waited too long.

The book nonsense soured me on TV show even. From the bits and pieces I saw of the first two seasons, I don't feel like I've missed out on much by passing on HBO's A Game of Blood and Boobs, either.