What would make Kobo surpass Kindle?

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by darryl

I think many posters seem to be missing the point. Many if not most Mobileread members are by no means typical. I am not alone in having come to realise that the average user cares about very little other than convenience, price and basic reading functionality...

And it seems that you may have missed the point of the OP who asked what new features might help Kobo to cut into Kindle's market share. Not knock Kindle from its dominant position in the market. Just chip away at its share of the market.

In this regard, you'll notice that I specifically said such features would "tempt more Kindle users to make the switch". Not all. Not most. Not even many. Simply more.

I don't think many people are questioning that the average user visiting these forums is not the same as the average Kindle or Kobo user. As you say, the average user of ereaders just wants to read straight out of the box. The average user would likely be very intimidated about patching and editing config files even when presented with very clear step by step instructions. The average reader would have very little need for screenshots. They could always just snap a picture of the screen with their smartphone.

However, there are a significant number of non-average users out there. Just look at the success which Remarkable enjoyed even before they had a physical product.

If Kobo were to add features which would appeal to a significant segment of the non-average reader population, they would likely attract more Kindle users over to their devices. That would eventually lead to a good number of average users purchasing their products as well.

For example, my uncle was a happy Kindle user. However, he became very interested in Kobo devices after seeing my KA1 even though he has zero interest in installing other reading software like Koreader and installing custom Chinese and Japanese dictionaries. He bought himself a KA1 and happily buys his books from Kobo now.

So, by adding useful features, Kobo may not replace Kindle. However, they will be able to chip away at their market share which seems to have been the whole point of the opening post.

[Braid]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I didn't like B&N's policies.

I was just kidding. I do have a Nook Simple Touch but it sits in my drawer - the readers I use are the ones listed by my avatar. Some things Kobo does stronger, for other things Kindle is better, that's regarding both hardware and software. As a sideloader, the 'ecosystem' is not something that concerns me. Acting like one brand is obviously superior to the rest is bizarre.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

And it seems that you may have missed the point of the OP who asked what new features might help Kobo to cut into Kindle's market share. Not knock Kindle from its dominant position in the market. Just chip away at its share of the market.

The question was "Basically what features, etc would cause Kobo to cut into the market share of Kindle in your opinion?"

That's just my point. If you limit what Kobo must do to simple features etc. of its hardware my opinion is that there is quite literally nothing which "would cause Kobo to cut into the market share of Kindle". Kobo's disadvantages lie elsewhere.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Braid

I was just kidding. I do have a Nook Simple Touch but it sits in my drawer - the readers I use are the ones listed by my avatar. Some things Kobo does stronger, for other things Kindle is better, that's regarding both hardware and software. As a sideloader, the 'ecosystem' is not something that concerns me. Acting like one brand is obviously superior to the rest is bizarre.

I am in total agreement with you on the last part.
Also as I understand it, I think Kobo is more popular than Kindle in some parts of the world.
Now as far as superior, Ritz crackers are better than any store brand I have found.
As to ereaders, tablets and other devices: the superior device is the one that works best for you.

[Sir Loyne]

Originally Posted by Braid

The truth is that all e-readers are terrible compared to the Nook Simple Touch, which is the preferred choice of anyone who tries it out against other brands. If you think you like your Kobo/Kindle, sorry pal, you've been duped.

I used to only buy Nook's. I've got 3 Nook Simple Touch's actually. I have 2 without the light. One is used a little because it was the replacement I had to buy for the one I let someone borrow and they left it out in the rain and the other is brand new that I bought as a backup. I stopped using them when they came out with the one with the light and I bought that one. I liked it, but the contrast was/is terrible. I desperately wanted to buy a Kobo Aura when they first came out, but I couldn't find one in the states, and the Kobo website absolutely refused to take my money. I gave up and bought a Paperwhite. I liked it better, but still wanted a Kobo because I could use epub's, like on the Nook. When Kobo finally caught up with the rest of the world and accepted PayPal, I bought a Glo HD. It was vastly superior to the Kindle. Shortly after that they came out with the Aura One, which I bought... not for the screen size (which is much better for reading than a 6"), but for the blue light reduction. I have it set for a little more than half way all of the time because the blue light from white LED's tires out my eyes fairly quickly. I was thinking of getting the new Nook, as it also has the blue light reduction. I wouldn't get another Kindle because they don't, and they try to wall you in too much.

Trust me... I have NOT been duped.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by darryl

The question was "Basically what features, etc would cause Kobo to cut into the market share of Kindle in your opinion?"

That's just my point. If you limit what Kobo must do to simple features etc. of its hardware my opinion is that there is quite literally nothing which "would cause Kobo to cut into the market share of Kindle". Kobo's disadvantages lie elsewhere.

Back in May of this year, Remarkable had more than 27,000 backers worth more than $11 million dollars in sales.

https://venturebeat.com/2017/05/31/h...-paper-tablet/

That's not an insignificant chunk of change. And they were a startup. It was a gamble. People kept on throwing about the term "vaporware" in reference to the campaign. That doesn't do much to encourage those who might be interested but sitting on the fence.

From what I gather, the ereading experience on the device leaves much to be desired.

However, imagine combining those note taking/sketching capabilities with the reading experience already on Kobo devices... If Kobo were able to do something like that, they could attract a considerable number of new users, quite possibly a good number of current Kindle users which would cut into Kindle's market share.

Would it be enough to knock Kindle out of its place at the forefront of eink devices? Probably not. However, it would chip away at their share of the market which, again, seemed to be the point of the OP which you seemed to miss or ignore.

[Deskisamess]

However, imagine combining those note taking/sketching capabilities with the reading experience already on Kobo devices... If Kobo were able to do something like that, they could attract a considerable number of new users, quite possibly a good number of current Kindle users which would cut into Kindle's market share.

My guess is that the majority of e-reader users just want to read on their dedicated e-ink device.

The article about the Remarkable said they "shifted more than 27,000 units in preorder..." Estimates of Kindle sales from 2014 were more than 43,000,000 sold. And that was three years ago. 30k is a drop in the bucket compared to tens of millions, and the number has to be a lot higher now, 3 years after those numbers were estimated by Forbes.

When I want to read something that requires note taking and or highlights, I use an iPad. If I want to sketch something, I use my iPad Pro.

I see a device like the Remarkable as being a niche item...there will be users that want one. But not mainline users who want a good device with which to just plain read.

It will be interesting to see where the tech takes us over the next few years. I'm amazed at the improvements to the new Oasis when compared with my first Kindle, which was the 2nd gen model. And the differences from the second Paperwhite to this Oasis are amazing.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Braid

Actually, I suspect that 100% of all positive "reviews" of both Kobo and Kindle devices are written by paid shills for Kobo and Amazon. The truth is that all e-readers are terrible compared to the Nook Simple Touch, which is the preferred choice of anyone who tries it out against other brands. If you think you like your Kobo/Kindle, sorry pal, you've been duped.

The new nook Glowlight 3 is lousy. It has 8GB RAM/storage and you only get 1GB for side loading. It's pathetic.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

My guess is that the majority of e-reader users just want to read on their dedicated e-ink device.

I don't think that anyone is disputing that. Certainly not me as I readily acknowledged in an earlier post.

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

The article about the Remarkable said they "shifted more than 27,000 units in preorder..." Estimates of Kindle sales from 2014 were more than 43,000,000 sold. And that was three years ago. 30k is a drop in the bucket compared to tens of millions, and the number has to be a lot higher now, 3 years after those numbers were estimated by Forbes.

Good point. Remarkable was also a startup with no physical device ready to ship. In short, it was a gamble and many people are hesitant about risking their money on unknown entities.

A device with good note taking/sketching and reading capabilities would also appeal to users who have purchased larger ereaders such as the Sony and the Max. Of course, that still probably wouldn't quite add up to 43,000,000.

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

When I want to read something that requires note taking and or highlights, I use an iPad. If I want to sketch something, I use my iPad Pro.

And when I'm reading and want to make a note or do a quick sketch, I'd rather not have to juggle devices, particularly if I'm traveling or commuting.

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

I see a device like the Remarkable as being a niche item...there will be users that want one. But not mainline users who want a good device with which to just plain read.

Quite agree. However, I suspect that there are a good number of niche users out there. And i think a lot of people could be tempted with the right product at the right price. Unfortunately, nobody has come out with it yet.

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

It will be interesting to see where the tech takes us over the next few years. I'm amazed at the improvements to the new Oasis when compared with my first Kindle, which was the 2nd gen model. And the differences from the second Paperwhite to this Oasis are amazing.

Yes, I imagine there will be some changes on the horizon. Just hoping that they come sooner rather than later.

[ElWorm]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The answer to the topic at hand is...

More options to set things the way you want vs the way Amazon wants.

That is the reason I switched to Kobo after fighting three generations of Amazon's Kindle restrictions . For example, I shouldn't have to hack my ereader just to have the current read's book cover as my screensaver. As far as I am concerned, Kobo already has Amazon's Kindle beat.

[Braid]

It looks like some people are listing reasons they think Kobo is already better than Kindle, rather than things Kobo could change to make it surpass Kindle, as the thread asks for.

Unbelievable. I would never have expected such partisan brand-loyalist behaviour.

Just kidding, of course I would expect this reaction. I have to ask though, do the pro-Kindle crowd exhibit similar levels of defensiveness about their preferred brand? For whatever reason my Kindle devices usually behave more in line with my expectations, so I tend to spend more time in Kobo forums looking for solutions. So it makes sense that I would witness more of the Kobo fanboyist type behaviour. Maybe Kobo being the 'underdog' plays a part as well.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by Braid

I have to ask though, do the pro-Kindle crowd exhibit similar levels of defensiveness about their preferred brand?

Well, you could go to the Kindle forum and start a thread about where Kindles are lacking in functionality. See how well that goes down. Make sure to have a tin hat on standby, though

Someone tried it in this thread - with predictable responses from the Faithful.

[Deskisamess]

I'm not a brand loyalist. I'd been using a Kobo Glo for the past year, and was considering buying the larger Kobo, when Amazon released the new Oasis. I had switched over to a Kobo for the improved font, margin, and line spacing options. When Amazon matched those features (for the most part) going back to Amazon was an easy decision.

I like the ease of the Amazon universe. I don't need it, and functioned quite well with my PC, Calibre, and my Kobo. But I am glad to be back with Amazon, as I find it much easier, especially the ability to email books to Amazon devices. The ability to add my own DOCs to the Amazon storage is also a huge plus, and means I can easily grap a book/doc when I'm using another device.

I'm not a huge fan of the Fire tablets, and Amazon's streaming system chomps IMO. If I had to pay extra (past the Prime yearly fee) I would not use Amazon for streaming anything. And I have found their customer support to be falling as well, at the same time using their site to shop has become more difficult. As the wholesalers take over, it is becoming too much like ebay, and much harder to find what I'm looking for.

[johnnyb]

Zippy and reliable firmware, much improved highlighting, send to Kobo (support for kepub), cloud library for brought books, much improved dictionary support
I just switched back to Kindle for all of these features, for good this time I suppose (had a Lne). I am now of the opinion that for me, nothing beats reliability and ease of use. Kobo has this to a certain degree for just-readers, but I make highlights in sometimes rather complicated non-fiction stuff and I hated losing everything everytime I had to restore my reader to factory settings.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Braid

It looks like some people are listing reasons they think Kobo is already better than Kindle, rather than things Kobo could change to make it surpass Kindle, as the thread asks for.

Unbelievable. I would never have expected such partisan brand-loyalist behaviour.

Just kidding, of course I would expect this reaction. I have to ask though, do the pro-Kindle crowd exhibit similar levels of defensiveness about their preferred brand? For whatever reason my Kindle devices usually behave more in line with my expectations, so I tend to spend more time in Kobo forums looking for solutions. So it makes sense that I would witness more of the Kobo fanboyist type behaviour. Maybe Kobo being the 'underdog' plays a part as well.

There are things that would make the Kindle much better than it is. Instead of just the simplistic choices Amazon gives with the on screen formatting, just give us sliders that let the user control what we want. I (and a lot of others) want less margin and less line height. A lot want to be able to easily add fonts to the fonts menu. Some are OK with the Kindle as is, but for those that don't now about these sorts of things, would they be happy if they got them?

The reason we are saying Kobo is already better is because we have more options to what we can do now. We don't need them added in. The thing is, I've read a lot about Kindle users asking for more options and Amazon ignoring them.