DRM, DeDRM, and ebook formats

[hobnail]

In the FAQS.md file he says "Starting with version 1.19, Kindle for PC/Mac uses Amazon's new KFX format which isn't quite as good a source for conversion to ePub as the older KF8 (& MOBI) formats."

• The Kindle I've registered for when I download the books from the Content and Devices page is an old Oasis. When I drag them into Calibre they show up as either AZW3 or MOBI. Does that mean I'm not getting any books in KFX format?
• What does he mean by the KFX format "isn't quite as good a source for conversion"?

I was thinking of giving an unused Pocketbook ereader to a friend (who's not computer savvy) and recommending they install Kindle for PC to get a password/key for DeDRM, and converting them in Calibre and now I'm wondering if that's not such a good idea.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by hobnail

In the FAQS.md file he says "Starting with version 1.19, Kindle for PC/Mac uses Amazon's new KFX format which isn't quite as good a source for conversion to ePub as the older KF8 (& MOBI) formats."

• The Kindle I've registered for when I download the books from the Content and Devices page is an old Oasis. When I drag them into Calibre they show up as either AZW3 or MOBI. Does that mean I'm not getting any books in KFX format?
• What does he mean by the KFX format "isn't quite as good a source for conversion"?

I was thinking of giving an unused Pocketbook ereader to a friend (who's not computer savvy) and recommending they install Kindle for PC to get a password/key for DeDRM, and converting them in Calibre and now I'm wondering if that's not such a good idea.

Why not just tell your friend to buy ePub it's so much easier for anyone who does not have an eInk Kindle.

The advice to use KindleforPC 1.19 is obsolete. On a MAC, you need to use the latest KindleforMAC and you cannot remove the DRM from any KFX downloaded. I don't know if KindleforPC requires the latest version and if you can remove the DRM from KFX. But even if you can use an older KIndleforPC and remove the DRM, eventually, that won't be so.

At present, D&T is broken on Amazon US & UK and you cannot download any new eBooks with an eInk Kindle.

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why not just tell your friend to buy ePub it's so much easier for anyone who does not have an eInk Kindle.

EreaderIQ.com lists free books from amazon and those lists change every day. I've discovered many good authors that way. But I am aggressive at not finishing a book if it doesn't engage me so I'm not bothered by the variable quality.

I think our local library also has some books in Kindle format that aren't in EPUB format. You can filter on format and I remember that the counts are different.

[Sirtel]

DeDRMing Kindle ebooks without an eink Kindle is certainly not something I'd recommend to someone who is not computer savvy. The situation with the KFX DRM changes pretty often, and without an eink Kindle it's not possible to get non-KFX files.

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

DeDRMing Kindle ebooks without an eink Kindle is certainly not something I'd recommend to someone who is not computer savvy. The situation with the KFX DRM changes pretty often, and without an eink Kindle it's not possible to get non-KFX files.

Agreed. Even if the KFX thing wasn't an issue I was thinking that for him, installing Kindle for PC and the subsequent steps is probably more than he'd be able to do.

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by hobnail

Agreed. Even if the KFX thing wasn't an issue I was thinking that for him, installing Kindle for PC and the subsequent steps is probably more than he'd be able to do.

Even though he's not computer savvy he uses his phone all the time for work. I'm thinking that maybe I could suggest he install Overdrive and see how that goes. He's an avid reader and I think he said he gets a lot of books from the library.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by hobnail

• What does he mean by the KFX format "isn't quite as good a source for conversion"?

Unlike azw3/KF8 which is very similar to ePub and conversion is relatively easy, KFX is a semi-compiled format. The process of converting the byte code produced by creating a KFX to another format is closer to decompiling a binary file than conversion.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by hobnail

I was thinking of giving an unused Pocketbook ereader to a friend (who's not computer savvy) and recommending they install Kindle for PC to get a password/key for DeDRM, and converting them in Calibre and now I'm wondering if that's not such a good idea.

I would instead suggest jumping ship to Kobo, buy books in ePub format, and use that path to convert your books to your preferred format.

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Unlike azw3/KF8 which is very similar to ePub and conversion is relatively easy, KFX is a semi-compiled format. The process of converting the byte code produced by creating a KFX to another format is closer to decompiling a binary file than conversion.

Ok, thanks. So out of curiosity am I not getting KFX from the download page because my Oasis is too old?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by hobnail

Ok, thanks. So out of curiosity am I not getting KFX from the download page because my Oasis is too old?

No. You're not getting it because Download & Transfer never delivers KFX, no matter which Kindle is the target.

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

No. You're not getting it because Download & Transfer never delivers KFX, no matter which Kindle is the target.

Ok, thanks.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

No. You're not getting it because Download & Transfer never delivers KFX, no matter which Kindle is the target.

Which is IMO an advantage as azw3 converts better to epub and most azw3 are uploaded as epub by publisher. KFX is about incremental "whispernet" delivery (read while downloading) and encrypting even content requested by publisher to by DRM free. The "advanced typographical" features are purely rendering, because KFX uses the same sources as azw3 / kF8. You only get mobi/azw/KF7 if you have one of four really old Kindles (or some early model that Amozon thinks never got the azw3 upgrade), or if a really ancient upload when Amazon accepted mobi source.
The azw3/KF8 is HTML5 + CSS3, like epub. Calibre can even edit it. The file can be DRM free.
The old mobi is HTML3 (no CSS).

There are other Kindle formats, some of which only really work on apps. There are several fixed layout/Print replica formats. One is really PDF in an Amazon wrapper (to allow Amazon DRM), so PDF can be extracted. Usually needs a bigger screen.

There are different DRM schemes for mobi including original Mobipocket (long broken) and a basic Amazon, usually an azw (no 3) ending. Sometimes an azw needs renamed to mobi or vice versa for Calibre or the deDRM pluging, depending on if DRM free (possible) or which encryption scheme is used.

Earlier, before Kindle, Amazon sold ebooks with Adobe DRM. But they bought Mobipocket in 2005 and later did their own encryption/DRM partially to save money. Adobe DRM incurs a per sale royalty!

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by hobnail

What does he mean by the KFX format "isn't quite as good a source for conversion"?

The focus of KFX is presentation, not ease of editing. If you convert a KFX to EPUB, you'll find that the converter has to generate names for CSS classes, since they don't really exist in the source. And, unlike well-written CSS, inheritance isn't used, so every slight variation in formatting gets its own class, because that's the way KFX defines the formatting, and the converter just turns that into the best possible CSS it can.

It's still better than MOBI, because more types of formatting are supported.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

It's still better than MOBI, because more types of formatting are supported.

Only Mobipocket PDB is worse than mobi.

Old KF7 Mobi was obsolete before the first Kindle (2007). Obsolete in 2005 when Amazon bought mobipocket. Basically only four font faces, subset HTML3, only really Roman-Latin with a little Greek. No LTR text. Earlier mobi PDB only did ASCII.

The ancestor of epub2 was released in 1998.

Fonts, LTR, extended character sets all solved issues by 1994, and on some systems in 1980s!

Amazon's Labs123 was pathetic choosing Mobi. At least they back-ported the azw3/KF8 to every older Kindle with enough RAM (So K3 is earliest, but not the slightly later DXG because it was just a screen upgrade of older DX, not enough RAM).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Only Mobipocket PDB is worse than mobi.

Old KF7 Mobi was obsolete before the first Kindle (2007). Obsolete in 2005 when Amazon bought mobipocket. Basically only four font faces, subset HTML3, only really Roman-Latin with a little Greek. No LTR text. Earlier mobi PDB only did ASCII.

The ancestor of epub2 was released in 1998.

Fonts, LTR, extended character sets all solved issues by 1994, and on some systems in 1980s!

Amazon's Labs123 was pathetic choosing Mobi. At least they back-ported the azw3/KF8 to every older Kindle with enough RAM (So K3 is earliest, but not the slightly later DXG because it was just a screen upgrade of older DX, not enough RAM).

That would be 2000. Microsoft Lit was the precursor to ePub2.