|
View Poll Results: Does the kobo forma light flicker cause you eye strain? | |||
yes | 9 | 14.06% | |
no | 55 | 85.94% | |
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
01-14-2020, 04:26 AM | #91 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,983
Karma: 128903378
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
So from what's being said, the Forma doesn't cause any noticeable flickering and those complaining about flickering are just doing so based on the idea of PVM and/or having watched a video.
|
01-14-2020, 05:11 AM | #92 |
Member
Posts: 19
Karma: 2075226
Join Date: Apr 2019
Device: Kobo Forma
|
With all due respect but I think your are construing a conclusion here. I think the poll says it all: 8 were bothered by PWM, 50 not. So most are fine, but I would not dismiss the 8 even though clearly in the minority and assume they are imagining things or trolling based on a video they saw. The studies that have been discussed in this thread showed that people can have adverse effects even with higher refresh rates than the ones used by the Forma. Rare, yes. But nonexistant, no.
|
Advert | |
|
01-14-2020, 06:23 AM | #93 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,659
Karma: 66420972
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPadMini4, iPad4, MBP; support other Kobo/Kindles
|
Quote:
The data in this poll is of about the same use as the data saying that a certain percentage of people developed x side effect while they were on y drug. Without a controlled randomised blinded trial and a good placebo, and replication, it means nothing about causation. I am not saying that people are deliberately trolling; however, if they have experienced 'eyestrain' symptoms, I do not know on what basis they are attributing them to PWM. There are multiple other far more likely mechanisms. Last edited by meeera; 01-14-2020 at 07:19 AM. |
|
01-14-2020, 06:59 AM | #94 |
Member
Posts: 19
Karma: 2075226
Join Date: Apr 2019
Device: Kobo Forma
|
I think there are studies that confirmed a negative effect of flickering. There is also a physiological explanation. However, the question what flicker rate is safe is not so clear.
Quoting from a link I have shared much earlier in this thread: “[...] flicker is no longer perceived consciously but it can nevertheless have effects on our neurological system. This is because the optic nerve and the cortex can detect stimuli up to 160 Hz, depending on modulation and wave form. In the retina itself stimuli up to 200 Hz have been identified in tests.” Even with a higher frequency, when interfering with other light sources or optical stimuli, negative effects have been found in studies. Another quote from the same link: “It is strongly recommended that LEDs should be operated above 3 kHz because at this frequency no evidence has been found of any effects on humans.” I didn’t have the impression that these kind of studies are paid-for bogus studies either (the link quoted is based on an industry recommendation from the IEEE) |
01-14-2020, 07:18 AM | #95 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,659
Karma: 66420972
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPadMini4, iPad4, MBP; support other Kobo/Kindles
|
Quote:
|
|
Advert | |
|
01-14-2020, 07:24 AM | #96 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,983
Karma: 128903378
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Quote:
Davifor's post is the most convincing of all that there is no perceivable flicker. Someone that sensitive would be having some sort of problem if the flickering was a bother. |
|
01-14-2020, 08:32 AM | #97 | |
Member
Posts: 19
Karma: 2075226
Join Date: Apr 2019
Device: Kobo Forma
|
Quote:
The same meta study is also used in a presentation from the US Department of Energy you can find here: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/fi...htfair2015.pdf On slide 18 you can see the recommended frequency based on the modulation. The curve was plotted along the various studies looked at with a dot representing a study result. There are studies that found effects well beyond 1Khz. Anyway, this is just retreading a prior discussion, so I leave it at that. |
|
01-14-2020, 11:45 AM | #98 |
Wizard
Posts: 2,841
Karma: 22003124
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2
|
As I said back when this was a new topic
This poll is laughable since it presumes causation in its answer. There are tons of reasons someone could have eyestrain while reading. Reasons which have nothing to do with flickering. The current results, which are close to the results from back then, indicate that a small fraction of respondents even had any issues with eyestrain, but doesn't talk about how big an issue it was. |
01-14-2020, 01:48 PM | #99 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,983
Karma: 128903378
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
You could even have eyestrain just using the front light which again has nothing to do with PVM/flicker. You could have eyestrain from being tired. Maybe you are in the beginnings of a cold or other illness. There are a number of reasons that have nothing to do with PVM/flicker.
So the thing is, unless you know for sure it's the device causing the eyestrain, then you cannot say that the PVM/flicker is a problem. |
01-14-2020, 05:02 PM | #100 |
Member
Posts: 23
Karma: 3488
Join Date: Jan 2020
Device: kobo forma
|
Wow, this discussion is drifting towards flat-earther territory, so this has to be said:
It's classical physics guys! There is not a shred of doubt PWM has an effect on people and yes (!), you don't get to have an opinion on that, since it's not up for debate. The only question is to what extent people are affected. Next to this, most people who experience issues are not even aware their problems could be caused by something they don't visibly notice, hence the true number of affected readers is 'very likely' much higher than any forum poll could suggest. To sum it up, there is no question if there is a problem, only how serious it is. |
01-14-2020, 05:07 PM | #101 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,983
Karma: 128903378
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Quote:
|
|
01-14-2020, 05:52 PM | #102 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,841
Karma: 22003124
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2
|
Quote:
Literally no one has said PWM can’t cause issues, especially when it’s improperly implemented. Only that in the Formas case it has been properly implemented. And that there are other causes for eye strain which are more common and more likely than PWM. But please do ignore illness, weakening eyes, lighting outside of PWM, stress, etc etc. it’s obvious that all 15 people who’ve responded in the affirmative had none of those issues because they pressed a button on a poll. I guess we can chuck scientific testing out and just have 65 people fill out a binary poll with absolutely no control or regulation over the sample experience. |
|
01-14-2020, 05:58 PM | #103 | |
Member
Posts: 23
Karma: 3488
Join Date: Jan 2020
Device: kobo forma
|
Quote:
Kudos to everyone who doesn't have a problem. I think there's no real alternative to the Forma if you fancy this screen size. I do fancy it a lot. |
|
01-14-2020, 06:07 PM | #104 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,841
Karma: 22003124
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2
|
Quote:
No one doubts they have eye strain while reading. But you can’t tell people “this is causing your eye strain” and then ask them if they have eye strain because of that as a foundation for any claim. |
|
01-14-2020, 07:26 PM | #105 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,983
Karma: 128903378
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
If you replied yes in the poll, please explain what it is you are seeing or what is happening. Please be as specific as possible. Thanks.
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
screen flickering and pixelated | ejseeks | Kobo Reader | 4 | 01-10-2017 07:52 PM |
KT Screen Flickering | Fahd | Kindle Developer's Corner | 11 | 05-29-2013 09:08 AM |
Screen flickering/blinking | islandmixed | Amazon Kindle | 2 | 12-22-2012 09:28 PM |
Flickering Screen? | luqmaninbmore | Nook Color & Nook Tablet | 2 | 01-11-2011 12:47 PM |
Screen flickering and color blotches? | ozero | Nook Color & Nook Tablet | 12 | 12-06-2010 03:19 PM |