EPUB to Kindle store - convert to MOBI or not?

[exaltedwombat]

Is there any point in converting an EPUB file to MOBI before uploading to the Kindle Store? An EPUB is accepted. You get an online or downloadable preview. Am I missing anything?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Is there any point in converting an EPUB file to MOBI before uploading to the Kindle Store? An EPUB is accepted. You get an online or downloadable preview. Am I missing anything?

As far as I know, epub, Word (Doc/Docx) and KPF are the recommended format for upload. Mobi is an acceptable format but not recommended.

If you are using epub, be prepared to use media queries.

[Quoth]

epub2 was what Amazon told us when there were issues with docx page breaks missing.

We upload exactly the same version as all other epub destinations. No media queries. Libre Office Writer with editing in ODT format and proper use of images, styles, header levels and anchor / link to user inline Contents page. Extra Save As as docx and conversion by Calibre with Tablet for page/image mode.

Works 4" Android phone, 6" phone, 10" tablet (lithium epub, Aldiko, Google Playbooks), Kobo, Sony, Binatone and Nook epub.
The Amazon end user sale downloads tested on DXG, Keyboard 3, older Basic, PW3, PW4, etc.

Looks similar to source viewed at 125% and page size set small enough for a full page view on Writer on Linux Mint. I used Windows till 2016 and Word till 2014.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Is there any point in converting an EPUB file to MOBI before uploading to the Kindle Store? An EPUB is accepted. You get an online or downloadable preview. Am I missing anything?

Short answer, no. The epub2 actually works best. Docx is next best.

Mobi is only used here to test before upload and we use the Franken dual mobi from Calibre that has old Mobi KF7 and the az3 KF8 in the one file. We do also upload that to Smashwords as well as epub and doc, so all types of readers are supported.

Amazon knows which Kindle format to deliver, but Smashwords can't know that.

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Short answer, no. The epub2 actually works best. Docx is next best

My experience also.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As far as I know, epub, Word (Doc/Docx) and KPF are the recommended format for upload. Mobi is an acceptable format but not recommended.

If you are using epub, be prepared to use media queries.

Yes, yes, Amazon is popping up a warning, when you upload a mobi, but the sort of "mobis" that they are trying to cut off at the knees are KF7 mobis like those made by Calibre, etc.

We are still obtaining superior MOBI results, over "just" ePUB results. FWIW. And yes, that's due to mqs. Only a fool would engage in a money bet right now, taking the side that Amazon's going to nuke MOBI format. I don't see that happening in the next...hell, 3 years minimum and maybe 5. If ever.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yes, yes, Amazon is popping up a warning, when you upload a mobi, but the sort of "mobis" that they are trying to cut off at the knees are KF7 mobis like those made by Calibre, etc.

We are still obtaining superior MOBI results, over "just" ePUB results. FWIW. And yes, that's due to mqs. Only a fool would engage in a money bet right now, taking the side that Amazon's going to nuke MOBI format. I don't see that happening in the next...hell, 3 years minimum and maybe 5. If ever.

Hitch

I think Amazon should do away with Mobi when it's time for the batteries in Mobi only Kindles to be dying. That means that eventually Mobi will go away when the majority of Mobi only Kindles are no longer in use.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I think Amazon should do away with Mobi when it's time for the batteries in Mobi only Kindles to be dying. That means that eventually Mobi will go away when the majority of Mobi only Kindles are no longer in use.

Hi:

Eventually, of course, they shall. But unlike Apple, which casts off devices, software and frankly, users, willy-nilly, in order to sell more hardware, Amazon uses hardware to sell more digital products, like ebooks. That means that they'll support the older devices far longer.

Look, I'm the first person in line to say "gimme SVG" and "gimme KF8," as it would make my life far easier. But I respect Amazon's position on this, just like I respected MS carrying and supporting XP as long as they did. Not being utterly abandoned as customers builds brand loyalty, presumably. I can say that Apple's behavior around the 1st-gen iPad absolutely alienated me for life; I will not, now or ever, buy another new Apple product and frankly, I make every effort not to buy used ones, either.

I guess I'm just not "cool" by having whatever latest gizmo or gadget they put out, or the newest phone. I don't care to be jerked around, just so I'll dump a 2-y.o. device or phone and buy another, because they take steps to ensure that my apps and software don't work.

Don't really care; can be a happy camper with my Samsung Note 9, and my various other devices, instead.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hi:

Eventually, of course, they shall. But unlike Apple, which casts off devices, software and frankly, users, willy-nilly, in order to sell more hardware, Amazon uses hardware to sell more digital products, like ebooks. That means that they'll support the older devices far longer.

Look, I'm the first person in line to say "gimme SVG" and "gimme KF8," as it would make my life far easier. But I respect Amazon's position on this, just like I respected MS carrying and supporting XP as long as they did. Not being utterly abandoned as customers builds brand loyalty, presumably. I can say that Apple's behavior around the 1st-gen iPad absolutely alienated me for life; I will not, now or ever, buy another new Apple product and frankly, I make every effort not to buy used ones, either.

I guess I'm just not "cool" by having whatever latest gizmo or gadget they put out, or the newest phone. I don't care to be jerked around, just so I'll dump a 2-y.o. device or phone and buy another, because they take steps to ensure that my apps and software don't work.

Don't really care; can be a happy camper with my Samsung Note 9, and my various other devices, instead.

Hitch

Kobo goes one better by supporting older devices with new firmware. So you get any changes/fixes on the older devices. It's user error if something doesn't work because the user did not upgrade the firmware.

It would make my life easier sometimes if Mobi died. I've seen eBooks from Amazon that are just a mass/mess if media queries. It would be a lot easier to convert to ePub if the CSS was a lot more simplified.

I don't upgrade to the latest phone or tablet as long as what I have still works well enough. Eventually I do upgrade. But not often and I don't go for the most expensive models.

[AlanHK]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Only a fool would engage in a money bet right now, taking the side that Amazon's going to nuke MOBI format. I don't see that happening in the next...hell, 3 years minimum and maybe 5. If ever.

It would be hilarious for them to block mobi, while still accepting Word files.
And they will never block Word files, in their quest to make self publishing easy for the masses. The absolute garbage produced by self published authors using Word is fine with them.

When I started making ebooks, I saw that Kindle was the dominant format, so I never looked at ePub. Learned to make html (from a text editor) + opf + ncx (using Excel) and compile using kindlegen, then Preview (since I didn't have an actual Kindle then).

After a couple of years I finally worked out that going via ePub and using Sigil was so much easier.

I've been converting to joint format mobi before submitting to Amazon. But now I might just give them the ePub -- though some books I work on are ePub3. Are they OK? I notice that when I generate an AZW from those that the NAV file will be visible; if I hide it in the ePub I will get an error in the resulting mobi.

Also, if submitting an ePub, will Amazon use the embedded cover image, or the one you submit separately?
The cover image I submit is from the print edition, which may be 6x9". I usually rejig the ebook cover to 600x810 to exactly fill the PW screen. So I would rather have that used for the Kindle than a letterboxed image.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by AlanHK

It would be hilarious for them to block mobi, while still accepting Word files.
And they will never block Word files, in their quest to make self publishing easy for the masses. The absolute garbage produced by self published authors using Word is fine with them.

When I started making ebooks, I saw that Kindle was the dominant format, so I never looked at ePub. Learned to make html (from a text editor) + opf + ncx (using Excel) and compile using kindlegen, then Preview (since I didn't have an actual Kindle then).

After a couple of years I finally worked out that going via ePub and using Sigil was so much easier.

Indeed it is.

I've been converting to joint format mobi before submitting to Amazon. But now I might just give them the ePub -- though some books I work on are ePub3. Are they OK? I notice that when I generate an AZW from those that the NAV file will be visible; if I hide it in the ePub I will get an error in the resulting mobi.

What happens when you simply drop it on Kindle Previewer? AZW is worthless for your purposes, anyway. ePUB3 is compatible with KDP, but I would strongly recommend including an NCX.

Hitch

[AlanHK]

Originally Posted by Hitch

What happens when you simply drop it on Kindle Previewer? AZW is worthless for your purposes, anyway. ePUB3 is compatible with KDP, but I would strongly recommend including an NCX.
Hitch

I make AZWs for books I sideload to my own Kindle, when I submit I do the dual mobi. I do check those on my Kindle as well.

I think Sigil keeps the ncx even in epub3. Though you do have to remember to (re)generate it on any changes.

Anyway, if I hide the NAV by removing it from the spine, it converts to mobi/AZW fine, no errors.
When I load on my Kindle, also fine till I page to the end, when it crashes with an error message.

Is this just me? I can redo it and document it more completely if necessary.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by AlanHK

I make AZWs for books I sideload to my own Kindle, when I submit I do the dual mobi. I do check those on my Kindle as well.

I think Sigil keeps the ncx even in epub3. Though you do have to remember to (re)generate it on any changes.

Anyway, if I hide the NAV by removing it from the spine, it converts to mobi/AZW fine, no errors.
When I load on my Kindle, also fine till I page to the end, when it crashes with an error message.

Is this just me? I can redo it and document it more completely if necessary.

Alan: when you say "...it converts to mobi/AZW fine..." are you performing that conversion through Calibre? You keep mentioning AZW, which pretty much means either Calibre, is that right? Does the crash still happen if you drop your ePUB3 onto KP or KG?

What, precisely, is your process? You have an ePUB3, with a Nav and with an NCX and then...?

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AlanHK

I make AZWs for books I sideload to my own Kindle, when I submit I do the dual mobi. I do check those on my Kindle as well.

If your Kindle supports KF8, you will never see the Mobi part of a dual-Mobi eBook. So making such to test on your Kindle may not be a good idea as you might not be testing the Mobi part.

[AlanHK]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Alan: when you say "...it converts to mobi/AZW fine..." are you performing that conversion through Calibre? You keep mentioning AZW, which pretty much means either Calibre, is that right? Does the crash still happen if you drop your ePUB3 onto KP or KG?

What, precisely, is your process? You have an ePUB3, with a Nav and with an NCX and then...?

Hitch

I use the Kindlegen plugin in Sigil.
Uses my install of Previewer which is 2.94.
So that may be out of date. I'm using WinXP so later versions may not be compatible.
For my own use and initial testing, I set it to strip the mobi to just AZW.

When submitting a file to Amazon, I'll make a joint mobi.

There is one publisher I need to make ePub3 for, since they also want to use Apple (i)Books, and I have found that ePub2 has some hassles. E.g., the TOC does not update if you load a new version.

I do the book first in ePub2, then convert to ePub3. I thought that since I have to make ePub3, I could just do all the work in that format and not have to export to ePub3 every time I wanted to share a version.
I found that if I used the ePub3 to convert to Kindle format (either dual or AZW) that the NAV page showed up. If I tried to hide it, it converts with no warnings, but when I loaded it on my PW3, paging to the end caused a crash.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If your Kindle supports KF8, you will never see the Mobi part of a dual-Mobi eBook. So making such to test on your Kindle may not be a good idea as you might not be testing the Mobi part.

I know. I do check the joint file before submitting. The KF7 version looks mediocre, but as long as it's valid, that's fine for this job.