Who's Considering Returning Their Kindle?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by bwaldron

Correct.

Of course, it was evident long ago that Amazon didn't want the Kindle PIDs out there, by removing Kindle support from Mobipocket Desktop versions beyond 6.0. Their software, their choice. But this recent action is over the top IMHO.

The action was almost certainly triggered by the recent release of the Kindle iPhone application. "KindlePID" can be used as a part of a toolchain to allow one to buy books from the Kindle store and read them on an iPhone even if one doesn't own a Kindle, and that was never the intended use of it.

[FourOhFour]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The action was almost certainly triggered by the recent release of the Kindle iPhone application. "KindlePID" can be used as a part of a toolchain to allow one to buy books from the Kindle store and read them on an iPhone even if one doesn't own a Kindle, and that was never the intended use of it.

You don't need a Kindle to buy Kindle books and read them on the iPhone with the kindle app.

I agree that it was triggered by the release of the iPhone app... with more people able to purchase the books there are more people able to strip the DRM if they get the PID. The number of people who'll buy a $300ish device, buy books, and distribute them online is probably lower than the number of people who'll buy a free app for a device they already own, buy books, and distribute them.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by jeremy81

No offense but to the people complaining didn't you purchase it knowing you would be buying books from Amazon. Isn't that the point?

For me it was because during the 30-day trial period, Amazon has changed their behavior. First they added restrictions to TTS and now the are actively pursuing tools like kindlepid (instead of their previous behavior of ignoring them).

[NormHart]

I thought about this long and hard and decided that I will not return the Kindle 2 I bought. My reasoning is thus;

I was aware of Amazon's DMR policy prior to purchase and, while I am disappointed with their recent decision visa-vie kindlepid.py, that does not out-weigh my initial reasons for purchasing it.

I bought the Kindle 2 primarily to read both the numerous free books on the web and my extensive Baen Book ebook collection and to get my feet wet in the ebook reader venue. The experience has been awesome!

I expected some issues with ebook formats and DMR as well as hardware technology issues since I view the ereader field as very early tech. Not unlike the Beta/VHS/LaserDisk/DVD/BlueRay shenanigans with video tech. I am hopeful that once the field has settled out we will see a standard emerging that offers the user the most bang for the buck while insuring authors, publishers, and ebook stores reasonable profit. I doubt that Amazon's current model will be that standard but, by the time a standard does emerge, I'll be ready for a new ereader in any case.

I had not anticipated making a lot of ebook purchases from Amazon since their selection in the Sci Fi field is limited and expensive when compared to Baen. Their recent decision reinforces that idea and, while some books will be irresistible, most of my purchases will be via Baen or other venues. If Amazon lightens up I'll reconsider my buying strategy.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by jeremy81

No offense but to the people complaining didn't you purchase it knowing you would be buying books from Amazon. Isn't that the point?

Jeremy, I doubt anyone here took offense and you ask an excellent question (karma coming your way for doing so).

I think -- and I'm a Sony owner not a Kindle owner -- the answer has several levels and what follows are my thoughts, not necessarily the correct answers.

First, Kindle owners intended to buy primarily from Amazon, not exclusively from Amazon. (I didn't want a Kindle because I try to avoid buying anything from Amazon, so I assume Kindle owners have just the opposite view.)

Second, I think that many -- not all -- Kindle purchasers assumed originally that an ebook is an ebook and once purchased could be read, with minor inconvenience, on any ebook device. Neither Sony nor Amazon make it clear how difficult, if nigh impossible, it is to do so.

Third, a lot of people who would otherwise be perfectly happy buying only from Amazon just do not like the Big Brother aspects that slowly are becoming apparent. It is simply a matter of principle. Additionally, Amazon has publicly stated that Kindle ebooks are DRMed because publishers demand it, and people assumed Amazon was speaking truthfully. The truth is that Amazon's contract with publishers insists that the publishers agree to have the books DRMed, and so chink in the trusty armor.

As one looks at the totality of events one begins to question Amazon's trustworthiness. What will happen next?

In my case, I recognize that Sony is not the white knight but there are a couple of things that put it ahead, public relations-wise, at this moment. First, Sony can't change my firmware automatically because there is no whispernet equivalent. Second, Sony can't look at my Reader and decide I'm violating the TOS by putting unapproved books on it, again because of no whispernet. Third, Sony has added ePub and reflowable PDF support to the Reader, making it more open (not 100% open, just more open) and freer of the Sony store.

Compare the actions of Sony with those of Amazon and it becomes more obvious why some Kindle owners are upset. Sony is not perfect, just currently better than Amazon in these regards.

[Mr. Goodbar]

I actually returned mine due to what I felt was an inferior font, but seeing their latest actions I'm glad I did. Given their size they could quickly get to a control point in the industry which would not be good for readers or authors.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Sony is not perfect, just currently better than Amazon in these regards.

They are. But Sony lost me years ago and won't ever get me back.

[grooks]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I actually returned mine due to what I felt was an inferior font, but seeing their latest actions I'm glad I did. Given their size they could quickly get to a control point in the industry which would not be good for readers or authors.

Do you plan to purchase a replacement device?

[radiationman]

Originally Posted by jeremy81

No offense but to the people complaining didn't you purchase it knowing you would be buying books from Amazon. Isn't that the point? If you didn't want to be locked into buying from Amazon you should have chosen something other than the Kindle in the first place. I've been considering both Sony's reader and the Kindle but decided on the latter because I would rather shop at Amazon. It seems kind of pointless to complain considering you had the same choice.

While yes, I did buy my K2 with the intention of primarily getting my paid content through Amazon. However, not all of the content I was interested was available from Amazon, but is available from other legal sources that thanks to the scripts in question I could purchase and place on my Kindle. With this action however Amazon is taking steps to force me totally and completely into their store.

This would be no different from Apple locking the iPod so that the only music you could put on it was whatever you could purchase through iTunes. No more ripping CD's, no more purchasing from the Amazon Music Store - it either comes from iTunes or nothing. Amazon specifically created the Music Store to compete with iTunes - they'd have a cow if Apple did that.

And before folks compare this to the iPhone app model - there's a few big differences. First the app model from it's very start was that apps had to come from the app store Apple didn't change the game with the app store a year after it was released. Second, Apple may not like the jailbreakers - but they don't serve takedown notices on them. Apple can refuse to honor the warranty on a jailbroken phone but they let the jailbreakers write and post their code...

[catsittingstill]

First of all, I am NOT happy with Amazon serving a DMCA on MobileRead. I don't think they had any moral or even legal right to do that. The scripts in question do not remove DRM, they merely make it possible for people who have legally purchased DRMed Mobipocket e-books to read them on their Kindles, thus, in my opinion, increasing the value of, and the market for, both the e-books and the Kindles, and increasing their likelihood of success in the long run.

Kindle doesn't *need* to be the only way to purchase at the Amazon Store; it's (again, in my opinion) one of the best combinations of features and value out there and can stand on its own. Amazon e-books don't *need* to be restricted to e-books; they are (in my opinion) one of the best combinations of selection and value out there and can stand on their own. And further unlocking them from each other would, in my opinion, only increase their success.

Saying that the scripts *could possibly* be used in combination with other scripts to break DRM and should therefor be suppressed, is like saying my nifty new ratcheting wrench set could possibly be used to take mailboxes apart and steal mail. So what? Sure, stealing the mail is a federal offense and taken very seriously (as it should be, in my opinion) but that doesn't mean you should be able to force me to throw my ratcheting wrenches in the garbage; I only use them for legitimate purposes, like repairing my fence and fixing my bicycle.

That said... my Kindle 1 was one of my favorite devices--a combination of features and price that met my needs and made reading e-books (obtained free from Feedbooks and Manybooks and the Baen Free library, or purchased from Baen or Fictionwise or Amazon) much easier and more pleasant. I took it everywhere with me; I literally felt antsy about leaving the house without it.

And the Kindle 2 I just received from MobileRead--I hadn't thought the increased sleekness would matter to me but (hangs head) apparently I am that vain shallow person I thought I wasn't. Plus the joystick really does make it easier to use a lot of the Kindle's features. Give it up? (Cat clutches it to her chest) Umm... I want to support Mobileread and everything, but.... no. No, I'm not going to send it back. I don't like how Amazon is behaving, but I really like the Kindle 2, even though I'd like it *even better* if it had an SD slot and a user replaceable battery (hint, hint :-).

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The action was almost certainly triggered by the recent release of the Kindle iPhone application. "KindlePID" can be used as a part of a toolchain to allow one to buy books from the Kindle store and read them on an iPhone even if one doesn't own a Kindle, and that was never the intended use of it.

Actually Harry it is Amazon that provided a tool to read Kindle books on the iPhone... it was 100% their intention. The tool is called the "Kindle App" available for free on the Apple App store.

BOb

[Boston]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Actually Harry it is Amazon that provided a tool to read Kindle books on the iPhone... it was 100% their intention. The tool is called the "Kindle App" available for free on the Apple App store.

BOb

Agreed...but I think that it wasn't until the release "Kindle App" that the ability to determine the PID became a threat (not its use with Kindlefix which was pretty much ignored despite being out there for over a year).

[slayda]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The action was almost certainly triggered by the recent release of the Kindle iPhone application. "KindlePID" can be used as a part of a toolchain to allow one to buy books from the Kindle store and read them on an iPhone even if one doesn't own a Kindle, and that was never the intended use of it.

Perhaps MR should do a DMCA takedown on Amazon requesting that they remove the iphone/kindle app since it "can be used as a part of a toolchain to allow one to buy books from the Kindle store and read them on an iPhone even if one doesn't own a Kindle".

[dmaul1114]

It's crappy of them to do that, but it doesn't affect me so I don't care that much.

I picked up my K1 just to get books from the Amazon store and free books from places like Feedbooks. I doubt I'll even look at other sources for books outside of those two as I'm not a super avid reader and can find most anything I'd want to read from there.

So in short I bought it mainly for convenience, not to shop around for best prices, deal with converting other formats etc.

But yeah, it sucks for people who wanted to shop at other ebook stores etd.

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by grooks

Do you plan to purchase a replacement device?

Yep, I already picked up a 505.