Epub 3

[KevinH]

Hi,

It gets worse ... see this post:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...41&postcount=1

So it seems the epub3 spec is simply no spec at all. Amazon has its own version (KF8), Apple has its exclusive own version now "application/x-ibooks+zip", and the Adobe crowd (Kobo, Sony, etc) still has no reader out there that supports much in the way of epub3 at all.

The industry, publishers, and ebook vendors are destroying themselves and the consumers are paying the price.

I had hoped things would get better, it seems it is getting worse. More vendor lock in, more DRM, more incompatible formats.

[Fugubot]

Epub3 does not pose a threat to traditional writing because the new functions do not exclude traditional text focus of books. It adds options but does not mandate that they be used. In this sense, it does not really represent much of a change from the cd-rom era multimedia authoring tools or even web authoring tools with the advantage that the ebook format and delivery system will be more accessible (anyone remember installing those Macromedia files in order to see video?). Authors can choose to use or not to use media.

It sounds like there's a worry that audiences will only want newer format of content. I don't see this as a problem. Best content will win and the best content will express itself in the most appropriate format. I've yet to see a compelling movie of Remembrances of Things Past. Even a good movie adaptation of Jane Austin does not replace the experience of reading.

There are good compelling uses for the Epub3 extensions to the standard. Not all books are novels.
Consider a math text book that could generate math problems and correct student progress. If the student answers incorrectly, it could show the error and generate a new problem until the student grasps the concept. No need for a separate course book of problems.

Apple's built in flashcard function is so obvious that its surprising its not already standard. From elementary school spelling to foreign language studies to medical anatomy, students will love this function.

Even novels and other fiction could benefit if wisely produced. Shakespeare that can play audio or video will make learning easier for many students. Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake foreshadow hypertextual reading styles. Yes, production will matter in these adaptations but production already matters in translated works, distinct editions (Folger's Shakespeare, Etc.), audiobooks, etc. Having to note differences in production is already something with which readers are familiar.

We're not moving into a brave new world, just travelling down a path which we've been on for years.

[Katsunami]

In the end, the format does not matter. It is the platform that matters. Apple found that out sound 2001: the device is not important, the content is. So , they created the iTunes store, and sold the iPod to easily get to the content. It would have worked even with a completely new and alien file format. There were mp3-players before the iPod, but getting good content was difficult or you needed to rip it yourself. The iPod changed that.

The ereader finally takes off now because Amazon is the Apple of the book world. They just do what they want, with their own format, concentrating on making books easily available, and even for free.... And they provide a device to read them on to boot. No wonder the kindle is bigger than all epub readers together.

If I choose the Kindle now, I may need to convert epub to Kindle now, and Kindle to epub later. If I choose another reader, it's the other way around if I'd ever switch towards the Kindle later or want to buy from Amazon now, so keeping the readers and books interoperable it's basically the same. In that case, I'll take the Kindle, with it's added convenience of the Amazon store.

[tomsem]

The whole push behind JavaScript use in ebooks (for purposes of 'communicating' directly with publishers, advertising, etc.) is troubling, and the potential for mischief non-trivial. I'm all for using it to create a pleasant, more interactive reading experience (pop up references etc) but there has to be transparency about what information is being shared and who owns it. And what safeguards are in place to protect privacy, and security.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tomsem

The whole push behind JavaScript use in ebooks (for purposes of 'communicating' directly with publishers, advertising, etc.) is troubling, and the potential for mischief non-trivial. I'm all for using it to create a pleasant, more interactive reading experience (pop up references etc) but there has to be transparency about what information is being shared and who owns it. And what safeguards are in place to protect privacy, and security.

Right.
But that's exactly what they are announcing they intend to do: gather user data via the ebook phoning home.

In the internet age, user data is a product, a form of currency, just as user attention/"eyeballs" is a product.
Google makes its money off our eyeballs and our usage patterns which is how they fund their "free products" by selling our attention to advertisers. Ultimately, Google is an advertising agency masquerading as a tech company. (Which is why their non-search products tend to be second-rate; its not their core business. )

Given that the ebook is a paid-for product, unlike the majority of web-content, who wants to "pay" again by gifting the publisher with our personal data?

Even if only a few publishers do it, once the word gets out that epub3 ebooks can spy on you, the subtlety that only *some* do it will get lost. The meme is going to be epub3=spyware.

And that is before we get to the other obnoxious use of script-driven ebooks: internal DRM. How is the market going to take to the idea of ebooks with their own shrink-wrap User Agreements? That you need to register and/or activate before you can read it? It's doable.

Even before the spec was finalized, Javascript was a bone of contention because of the can of worms of reader-hostile possibilities it opened up. Don't expect the issue to go away soon; it is part of the spec so somebody *will* use it.

[Brainphart]

Originally Posted by kame18

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2012...re-for-epub-3/

check this link what do you think?

I think I'll strip the DRM from epub-3 and convert it to another format without spyware capabilities.

[Hellmark]

It probably won't be as simple as that, since you'd have to go in and monkey with the HTML to make sure it gets stripped. Most of the time in converting between formats, the HTML doesn't really get messed with, because most ebook formats use it (the only format that I can think of offhand that would modify the HTML is the old Sony LRF format, because of how it breaks things up).

[Ken Maltby]

One look at it:
http://www.aptaracorp.com/assets/res...QAMay_2011.pdf

Perhaps "Classic EPUB" will drive "New EPUB" off the bookstore shelves?

Or, the next Internet Geek Hero will be the guy that provides the tool to de-fang EPUB3.

(If they stick to XML, it won't take long to find a point of attack.)

Luck;
Ken

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

One look at it:
http://www.aptaracorp.com/assets/res...QAMay_2011.pdf

Perhaps "Classic EPUB" will drive "New EPUB" off the bookstore shelves?

Or, the next Internet Geek Hero will be the guy that provides the tool to de-fang EPUB3.

(If they stick to XML, it won't take long to find a point of attack.)

Luck;
Ken

By not long, you mean seconds?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

Perhaps "Classic EPUB" will drive "New EPUB" off the bookstore shelves?

Quite possible.
Even more possible, it might be squeezed out of the market by .ibook, .kepub, .nook, and KF8 epub-derivatives.

ePub is a very weak spec, compliance-wise, and if the very epub "brand" gets tainted by the self-serving publishers' spyware dreams, the walled-garden retailers would have no objection to rebranding it for their own purposes and the <idpf> would have no recourse, even if anybody in that list called their format epub, which they have no need to, anyway.

At this point, the fate of the epub3 spec as even a suggestion-more-than-a-standard probably rests on an open and unambiguous rejection/blocking of outgoing data. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for <idpf> action. They are too closely aligned with the publishing interests to realize that some "features", however enticing to the content producers, are pure poison to the marketplace.

For reference: CIRCUIT CITY's DIVX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

[LordP]

Apalling idea.

Thanks for the link, I too left a message - I hope others will also make their feelings known.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

One look at it:
Perhaps "Classic EPUB" will drive "New EPUB" off the bookstore shelves?

Nice I like the backwards compatibility. But no surprise there, as nobody would go to epub3 devices if they had to throw their old epub library away and start all over.

Epub3 might just have the fate of mp4 for music files. Didn't the music industry try to push mp4 for its ability of DRM? And what happened to mp3? It never died and no music player can afford not to support mp3. Used to be that a mp3-player was called "IPOD", nowadays with all the alternative devices, it's simply "mp3-player".

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

It probably won't be as simple as that, since you'd have to go in and monkey with the HTML to make sure it gets stripped. Most of the time in converting between formats, the HTML doesn't really get messed with, because most ebook formats use it (the only format that I can think of offhand that would modify the HTML is the old Sony LRF format, because of how it breaks things up).

HTML gets messed with big-time when you convert from ePub to Mobi for the Kindle, because Mobi doesn't support CSS.

[J. Strnad]

Read any ebook, on any ereader.

That's what would make epub competitive. Not all of this interactivity b.s.

How about getting some basic functionality first?

Already Amazon has made the lack of advertising a feature by selling Kindles without "special offers" for $30-40 more. Why in the world would any readers rush to epub3 because of the ability to have extra stuff shoved onto your books and your reading habits reported to publishers?

[dragorth]

I can see using the javascript functionality in textbooks. If you haven't seen khanacademy.com, go and look at the way they test questions, use game mechanics to get kids to learn, and provide a dashboard for teachers and coaches to help students. This would be great in a text book, allowing teachers to monitor students doing their homework, seeing exactly where students seem to be having hangups with the work, etc.

I can also see the need for the accessibility functionality more fully worked out.