One last question

JimLL · 03-12-2012, 01:23 AM

Every time I find a very powerful piece of software it's the same old thing.

Calibre is like other software written by geniuses; the greater the genius and more powerful the app the less chance there is of it being usable by normal people. Geniuses apparently cannot even imagine anyone not knowing all about the program the minute they open it. They think only in terms of technicalities, details and how other genius programmers will will view it. Programmers write for programmers.

Now, does ANYONE, ANYWHERE know of ANYTHING that gives you the general basics of using Calibre - in non-techy, everyday language?

Googling shows me that a lot of people have asked where to get "Calibre for Dummies." That is NOT a foolish question. I've pored over Calibre Helps and it's all a mass of leaps from one buzz word to another, one detail to another, one technical obscurity to another - all written for folks who have taken a college course in Calibre. There is no overview for the beginner. Calibre is really for people who are deeply steeped in every detail of ebooks of every format in existence.

There isn't so much as a "Do this first" suggestion, much less a step by step explanation as to how to go through and fill out the myriads of TECHNICAL DETAILS necessary to carry out some kind of project. Fill in an XPATH box?? What the dash blank do I know about such esoterica as xpaths? And the helps are, again, written for professional's - people with photographic memories.

There are no FAQs telling you what, when, why or how to do anything. You're supposed to just DO IT. Many of the pop-up bubbles themselves are couched in the buzzwords super-programmers have every morning for breakfast and who have no idea everyone else isn't having the same breakfast. The very idea of explaining what they already know and take for granted is far beyond their genuis.

Yes! There are a LOT of technical things involved in turning out eBooks. So why do you programmers expect users to know all of them by memory?

I haven't found one yet, so will someone PLEASE write something with a non-techie overview and how-to steps??????????

avantman42 · 03-12-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

Now, does ANYONE, ANYWHERE know of ANYTHING that gives you the general basics of using Calibre - in non-techy, everyday language?

This video seems to be the sort of thing you're looking for:
http://calibre-ebook.com/demo

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

There isn't so much as a "Do this first" suggestion, much less a step by step explanation as to how to go through and fill out the myriads of TECHNICAL DETAILS necessary to carry out some kind of project. Fill in an XPATH box?? What the dash blank do I know about such esoterica as xpaths? And the helps are, again, written for professional's - people with photographic memories.

If you don't know what something means, leave it at the default. The defaults are generally sensible, and will work well enough most of the time.

JimLL · 03-12-2012, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avantman42

If you don't know what something means, leave it at the default. The defaults are generally sensible, and will work well enough most of the time.

Which means what?? Just leaving everything blank?? I've tried that and got nowhere fast. Can't get a TOC to save my life. There need to be explanations of things! Usable explanations with normal words. Guessing doesn't give me TOCs.

avantman42 · 03-12-2012, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

Which means what?? Just leaving everything blank?? I've tried that and got nowhere fast. Can't get a TOC to save my life. There need to be explanations of things! Usable explanations with normal words. Guessing doesn't give me TOCs.

As I said, "The defaults are generally sensible, and will work well enough most of the time.". If you've got a specific issue, try telling us exactly what it is and we'll do our best to help.

It sounds like you're trying to convert a file from one format to another, but there is no TOC in the output file. Is that right? What are you trying to convert from and to?

JimLL · 03-12-2012, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avantman42

As I said, "The defaults are generally sensible, and will work well enough most of the time.". If you've got a specific issue, try telling us exactly what it is and we'll do our best to help.

It sounds like you're trying to convert a file from one format to another, but there is no TOC in the output file. Is that right? What are you trying to convert from and to?

Again I ask, does that mean you are supposed to simply leave everything blank? You already insisted they are sensible but didn't answer my question.

That demo must be a great marketing aid, but just skims the surface and is not a look up.

What am I trying to do?

I have piles of manuscripts in .odt and parallel .doc formats in Open Office Writer. I can send the .doc files through the Send to Kindle app, but Amazon returns it in the most elementary .mobi and/or .epub format available, with no covers, no TOC, no navigation.

By navigation I mean using the Kindle navigator button to jump a chapter at a time instead of a page at a time. Huge difference in usability.

When I found out that all this stuff is apparently HTML at root, I decided to try going through HTML (I went through the .odts and .docs and put H1 status on all my chapter headings before exporting as HTML) then using Calibre to convert the HTML into .epub and/or .mobi.

That is when I started getting little if any more than Amazon level outputs. (Speaking of which, I'm REALLY just guessing on how to do this from the icons. I run a conversion (hopefully) and save to disk - purely guessing. I'm not even sure how to run the save - where to save to. As I say, there's no guidance for it.)

Oddly enough, one of the conversions displayed a TOC in Kindle for PC, but not in my Kindle.

By doing the process over and over and over I have occasionally gotten output with TOCs and navigation.

So, between guessing at what I'm supposed to do in Calibre and having old files popping up on me instead of the one I'm trying to work with, I'm getting nowhere.

avantman42 · 03-12-2012, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

Again I ask, does that mean you are supposed to simply leave everything blank? You already insisted they are sensible but didn't answer my question.

It means that you should leave them as they are. If they're blank, leave them blank. If they're already filled in, leave them that way. Note that I said they "will work well enough most of the time". They won't always do what is required, and it looks like your case is one where the defaults won't do what is required. They still make a good starting point, but you'll have to make some changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

That demo must be a great marketing aid, but just skims the surface and is not a look up.

In your original post, you asked for something "that gives you the general basics of using Calibre". I think the video does that. To my mind, the general basics are adding books, organising them, and sending them to your e-book reader.

As it happens, what you're trying to do is one of the more difficult operations, and one that is likely to require more in-depth knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

When I found out that all this stuff is apparently HTML at root, I decided to try going through HTML (I went through the .odts and .docs and put H1 status on all my chapter headings before exporting as HTML) then using Calibre to convert the HTML into .epub and/or .mobi.

I don't know XPath myself (never had to use it), so I'm going by the XPath tutorial in the Calibre manual.

Make sure you convert from the HTML files that you have modified to have H1 chapter headings
In the conversion dialogue, go to the "Structure Detection" page and replace the text in the "Detect chapters at (XPath expression)" box with:

Code:

//h:h1

speakingtohe · 03-12-2012, 05:21 AM

There is this sticky in the conversion subforum specifically about TOC
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=129364

carpetmojo · 03-12-2012, 05:40 AM

I agree with JimLL's basic plea - a variation on my usual "why does it all have to be so complicated for me, Mr. Tech Dunce, and please don't use words/phrases I can't understand " - but I found Calibre, much to my delight, incredibly easy, and any minor problems easily solved by help here.
[Once I'd realised I had to ignore the Sony junkware..... ]

But I have to say, as someone who bought "PC for Dummies" and found nothing seemed to apply to me or my PC,

what Jim's trying to do seems on a par with nuclear fission.
And I've always managed to get help I understood thanks to the great patience of fellow posters.

But, that "which means what..? " cry definitely resonated with me, for one !

theducks · 03-12-2012, 10:20 AM

@JimLL
Everything you do has some Jargon and skills needed attached.

Ride a bicycle: Kick-stand, Handlebar, Shifter, De-railer....
Common instructions do not include how to manufacture or Modify that bicycle.

Same goes for Calibre.
Calibre (conversion) is a Modification tool. You are expected to know a bit about the e-book (input format) before you can do a custom job on it (to get a different format).

As @advantman said: the default settings are usually good (for a typical, well formed source) . The computer adage GIGO still applies

The defaults expect certain Words to be used to detect section divisions: Chapter, Part, Epilogue...
If you book designer got creative, you need to help things along.
Ex. Chapters that ONLY have roman numerals

Chapters with sub-titles (Calibre will usually break (leave) these apart)

Personally, I skip trying to craft additional auto-detect rules and simply spend some time touching up with Sigil.

There, you can visually identify the desired TOC items and mark them (Sigil uses Heading levels to indicate TOC nest levels).
And Sigil generates the TOC from that at a click of a mouse.
An otherwise 'clean' EPUB takes me less than 5 minutes to polish the TOC (I do resort to using REGEX if I can)

Can you build a complete house? Did not think so

A Book is a House. The words on a page are just materials. The Author selects the words, the book layout designer is the Architect.

You simply need to take time and learn how to use your new power tools

before you start your remodel project

HarryT · 03-12-2012, 01:05 PM

Agreed. Use Calibre as a librarian and format converter. If you want to edit your book (eg add a TOC), use Calibre to convert it to ePub format and then use Sigil. You're really using the wrong tool for job trying to use Calibre for this.

JimLL · 03-12-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Agreed. Use Calibre as a librarian and format converter. If you want to edit your book (eg add a TOC), use Calibre to convert it to ePub format and then use Sigil. You're really using the wrong tool for job trying to use Calibre for this.

OK, I ask for clarity and I get "no, no, no, no." We can't have any of that. Everything's fine for us smart people!

I need to work learn what Calibre is all about? That's the same old elitist attitude that assumes a non-genius is merely lazy or stupid.

Enough already!! I'm an ex-programmer. Took Computer programming and computer engineering in college. I'm neither stupid nor lazy.

I can't think of a single question I have asked that got a direct answer. Instead I get things like "There should be a button" or "It should be easy." What kind of answers are those? Answers of people who can't abide simple step-by-step instruction (Or they themselves don't know). Who don't want their secrets in the hands of dummies?

You say Calibre isn't the right tool? That isn't an answer. You're so smart, tell me what IS the right tool?

When I wrote programs I did my best to make them easy to use. Apparently the folks working on Calibre take great delight in making it hard to use and keeping it that way. Forcing people to struggle. You don't WANT dummies to be able to use it constructively.

Exclusive, elitist club going here. For non-geniuses, Calibre must be merely a glorified ebook reader and it is going to stay that way - that is clear.

Converting is a terrible thing to ask of Calibre? Then TAKE OUT the conversion option, for crying out loud!

SHEESH! I wonder how many dirty diapers the Calibre uninstaller will leave behind... I'll probably be picking bits and pieces out of my teeth for days.

theducks · 03-12-2012, 06:46 PM

@JimLL
Calibre is to complicated for people who:
1) insist on doing it their way
2) have not invested time in reading (and viewing) the FAQ and tutorials at the end of the Help button.

Calibre Help is a living document. Calibre changes weekly.
Most of the Basics from V6.xx have not changed that much, only upgrades in the UI. There are tons of additional features.

You have ranted at at least 2 Moderators who invested time replying.
You are free to uninstall and yes, Calibre will leave the Library intact and User configuration folder behind (you can locate that via Preferences: Miscellaneous: and click the button near the bottom)

Happy Uninstall

AndrewH · 03-12-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLL

You say Calibre isn't the right tool? That isn't an answer. You're so smart, tell me what IS the right tool?

Two people already answered you, but here it is for the third time: Sigil.

carpetmojo · 03-12-2012, 06:57 PM

Oi !
Didn't you read my post - I'm a Tech Idiot and if I can do it, a self-styled ex-programmer with computing engineering & programming qualifications who can't, should obviously contact the educational institution concerned and ask for your money back.

And if you aren't getting the right help you need, could it perhaps be your question that needs simplifying and targeting better ?

And slagging off those who are trying to genuinely help isn't likely to advance your cause greatly, in my opinion.
Instead of firing of in all directions, why not try forgetting how much you may know, and simply admit ignorance about any terms and ask for clarification.

I have never had anything but an awful lot of useful help, that I eventually, because of my lack of understanding, in fact understood - nobody's trying to show how clever or knowlegeable they are, they're just trying to help.

So here's one dummy at least, that manages to use Calibre constructively quite happily, and I'm very grateful for such a superb tool.

Bilbo1967 · 03-12-2012, 07:06 PM

Personally, I too find the 'help' given in the Calibre forum to be sketchy at best.

I have no doubts at all over the people's technical knowledge, I do think that, like many developers, their people skills could be improved.

03-12-2012, 01:23 AM	#1
JimLL Cynic Posts: 75 Karma: 51078 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: Kindle	One last question Every time I find a very powerful piece of software it's the same old thing. Calibre is like other software written by geniuses; the greater the genius and more powerful the app the less chance there is of it being usable by normal people. Geniuses apparently cannot even imagine anyone not knowing all about the program the minute they open it. They think only in terms of technicalities, details and how other genius programmers will will view it. Programmers write for programmers. Now, does ANYONE, ANYWHERE know of ANYTHING that gives you the general basics of using Calibre - in non-techy, everyday language? Googling shows me that a lot of people have asked where to get "Calibre for Dummies." That is NOT a foolish question. I've pored over Calibre Helps and it's all a mass of leaps from one buzz word to another, one detail to another, one technical obscurity to another - all written for folks who have taken a college course in Calibre. There is no overview for the beginner. Calibre is really for people who are deeply steeped in every detail of ebooks of every format in existence. There isn't so much as a "Do this first" suggestion, much less a step by step explanation as to how to go through and fill out the myriads of TECHNICAL DETAILS necessary to carry out some kind of project. Fill in an XPATH box?? What the dash blank do I know about such esoterica as xpaths? And the helps are, again, written for professional's - people with photographic memories. There are no FAQs telling you what, when, why or how to do anything. You're supposed to just DO IT. Many of the pop-up bubbles themselves are couched in the buzzwords super-programmers have every morning for breakfast and who have no idea everyone else isn't having the same breakfast. The very idea of explaining what they already know and take for granted is far beyond their genuis. Yes! There are a LOT of technical things involved in turning out eBooks. So why do you programmers expect users to know all of them by memory? I haven't found one yet, so will someone PLEASE write something with a non-techie overview and how-to steps??????????

03-12-2012, 06:57 PM	#14
carpetmojo Wizard Posts: 3,117 Karma: 9269999 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5	Oh, perlease.... Oi ! Didn't you read my post - I'm a Tech Idiot and if I can do it, a self-styled ex-programmer with computing engineering & programming qualifications who can't, should obviously contact the educational institution concerned and ask for your money back. And if you aren't getting the right help you need, could it perhaps be your question that needs simplifying and targeting better ? And slagging off those who are trying to genuinely help isn't likely to advance your cause greatly, in my opinion. Instead of firing of in all directions, why not try forgetting how much you may know, and simply admit ignorance about any terms and ask for clarification. I have never had anything but an awful lot of useful help, that I eventually, because of my lack of understanding, in fact understood - nobody's trying to show how clever or knowlegeable they are, they're just trying to help. So here's one dummy at least, that manages to use Calibre constructively quite happily, and I'm very grateful for such a superb tool.

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03-12-2012, 05:21 AM	#7
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	There is this sticky in the conversion subforum specifically about TOC https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=129364

03-12-2012, 05:40 AM	#8
carpetmojo Wizard Posts: 3,117 Karma: 9269999 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5	I agree with JimLL's basic plea - a variation on my usual "why does it all have to be so complicated for me, Mr. Tech Dunce, and please don't use words/phrases I can't understand " - but I found Calibre, much to my delight, incredibly easy, and any minor problems easily solved by help here. [Once I'd realised I had to ignore the Sony junkware..... ] But I have to say, as someone who bought "PC for Dummies" and found nothing seemed to apply to me or my PC, what Jim's trying to do seems on a par with nuclear fission. And I've always managed to get help I understood thanks to the great patience of fellow posters. But, that "which means what..? " cry definitely resonated with me, for one !

03-12-2012, 10:20 AM	#9
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,754 Karma: 54401244 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	@JimLL Everything you do has some Jargon and skills needed attached. Ride a bicycle: Kick-stand, Handlebar, Shifter, De-railer.... Common instructions do not include how to manufacture or Modify that bicycle. Same goes for Calibre. Calibre (conversion) is a Modification tool. You are expected to know a bit about the e-book (input format) before you can do a custom job on it (to get a different format). As @advantman said: the default settings are usually good (for a typical, well formed source) . The computer adage GIGO still applies The defaults expect certain Words to be used to detect section divisions: Chapter, Part, Epilogue... If you book designer got creative, you need to help things along. Ex. Chapters that ONLY have roman numerals Chapters with sub-titles (Calibre will usually break (leave) these apart) Personally, I skip trying to craft additional auto-detect rules and simply spend some time touching up with Sigil. There, you can visually identify the desired TOC items and mark them (Sigil uses Heading levels to indicate TOC nest levels). And Sigil generates the TOC from that at a click of a mouse. An otherwise 'clean' EPUB takes me less than 5 minutes to polish the TOC (I do resort to using REGEX if I can) Can you build a complete house? Did not think so A Book is a House. The words on a page are just materials. The Author selects the words, the book layout designer is the Architect. You simply need to take time and learn how to use your new power tools before you start your remodel project

03-12-2012, 01:05 PM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Agreed. Use Calibre as a librarian and format converter. If you want to edit your book (eg add a TOC), use Calibre to convert it to ePub format and then use Sigil. You're really using the wrong tool for job trying to use Calibre for this.

03-12-2012, 06:46 PM	#12
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,754 Karma: 54401244 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	@JimLL Calibre is to complicated for people who: 1) insist on doing it their way 2) have not invested time in reading (and viewing) the FAQ and tutorials at the end of the Help button. Calibre Help is a living document. Calibre changes weekly. Most of the Basics from V6.xx have not changed that much, only upgrades in the UI. There are tons of additional features. You have ranted at at least 2 Moderators who invested time replying. You are free to uninstall and yes, Calibre will leave the Library intact and User configuration folder behind (you can locate that via Preferences: Miscellaneous: and click the button near the bottom) Happy Uninstall

03-12-2012, 07:06 PM	#15
Bilbo1967 Not scared! Posts: 13,424 Karma: 81011643 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midlands, UK Device: Kindle Paperwhite 10, Huawei M5 10	Personally, I too find the 'help' given in the Calibre forum to be sketchy at best. I have no doubts at all over the people's technical knowledge, I do think that, like many developers, their people skills could be improved.

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