Would you pay for new features?

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by tompe

I think you are missing that it is not the amount of money that is important. There is a principle involved here. I would rather buy a new reader for $300 than giving Bookeen more money for something they should deliver as part of the original deal.

There is only one thing bookeen owns you : bugfixes.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

There is only one thing bookeen owns you : bugfixes.

I depends when you bough your device. promises were made on the blog and in other places and people buying the device after these promises were made should get the things that were promised.

And I am still waiting for working html support that does not crash the reader so often. So I am still wating for a lot of bug fixes but I will never see these fixes so I will never buy a Bookeen product in the future.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Ok, I confess: I find it somewhat "funny", when one would rather spend 299,-- bucks instead of 9,99 just so his principles stay intact.

What's "funny" about it? I honestly don't understand. I agree with tompe on this.

The device manufacturer is under no obligation to produce new features -- only to fix bugs so that the reader works to its originally marketed features.

Of course, manufacturers do compete with each other on features, price, reliability and service. It is up to the manufacturer to decide which features to add in order to compete (listening to one's customers can be useful here, of course).

If we start going down a road where each improvement is an added cost option, it's not really good for the customer (who could be sold bare-bones models with all sorts of "options" packages -- confusing and likely more expensive in total), nor for the producer (who has to support numerous configurations).

The best way to handle this is to provide different hardware models/versions, where the "standard" model has fewer features than the "higher end" model. Of course, if the only difference between the two models is software, customers are less likely to view this favorably; if hardware differences are also involved, it's quite common and accepted (e.g., Sony 700 vs. 505).

Just my two cents. Hope you do not find them that funny.

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

You sound as if you had no principles at all and would do just anything for money. I hope that's not the case, because whatever you do, you'd ultimately waste your life.

In fact, quite the opposite is true... One of my major principles is that always a good compromise needs to be found. Another one to offer several solutions, not to tell other people exactly what to do and how to do it. I will always listen to other peoples ideas, but I otherwise don't hesitate telling the Emperor that he's naked...

In short, I try to live a good life, don't hurt anyone (for real) and be a good role model for others.

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

>> It's sad, but you'll soon enough realize, that nobody learns any lessons from your small sacrifices...
I hope you'll realize someday that doesn't matter at all.

I haven't said not to do it, just that you shouldn't hope for any reward or thanks. (which IS rather sad)

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by bwaldron

>> Ok, I confess: I find it somewhat "funny", when one would rather spend 299,-- bucks instead of 9,99 just so his principles stay intact.
What's "funny" about it? I honestly don't understand. I agree with tompe on this.

A. I spend $ 9,90 and get new features I want/need for my reader.
B. I buy a new reader with said features for $ 299,--.

I'll do A and find it somewhat funny when someone does B just because he's so fixed on his principles, he can't or won't reconsider.

Originally Posted by bwaldron

The device manufacturer is under no obligation to produce new features -- only to fix bugs so that the reader works to its originally marketed features.

100% ACK and this should always be free!

Originally Posted by bwaldron

Of course, manufacturers do compete with each other on features, price, reliability and service. It is up to the manufacturer to decide which features to add in order to compete (listening to one's customers can be useful here, of course).

If we start going down a road where each improvement is an added cost option, it's not really good for the customer (who could be sold bare-bones models with all sorts of "options" packages -- confusing and likely more expensive in total), nor for the producer (who has to support numerous configurations).

The best way to handle this is to provide different hardware models/versions, where the "standard" model has fewer features than the "higher end" model. Of course, if the only difference between the two models is software, customers are less likely to view this favorably; if hardware differences are also involved, it's quite common and accepted (e.g., Sony 700 vs. 505).

Sounds OK to me...

But look over at the iPhone and it's Apps - works fine and is THE promising market at the moment.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

But look over at the iPhone and it's Apps - works fine and is THE promising market at the moment.

If you notice my profile, I own an iPod Touch and am familiar with the applications available for it.

I see a difference between a "dedicated" device like an ebook reader and a more general purpose computing device (which is what smartphones -- or small "tablets" like the Touch -- are becoming). I have no issue with paying for (mainly third-party) software that enables the device to do something new. I do have an issue with paying Bookeen or Amazon or Sony for a new "feature" related to reading ebooks, as I would in paying Apple for a new music-playback feature for my older iPod Classic or Nano.

It is a fine line, granted, and the distinctions are ever more difficult to make.

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

A. I spend $ 9,90 and get new features I want/need for my reader.
B. I buy a new reader with said features for $ 299,--.

The trouble is, we initially trusted Bookeen, when it advertised that it will have working HTML and TXT, and that folders will be present in the next firmware update, which will be released in a month, at most (that was in 2007).

So, if you still trust tem after this experience, and choose A., you'll spend 9,90 and get nothing but new promises.

[Godzil]

Heu, they HAVE working HTML and TXT. But they NEVER promise folder support. The only thing they said is that it was on their todo list, along a plenty of other things

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Godzil

Heu, they HAVE working HTML

My HTML files usually crash the Cybook. That is not working. There is no excuse for rebooting when reading an HTML document. It is also silly that you cannot follow links in an HTML document.

[Godzil]

The Cybook is NOT a webbrowser, and you cannot blame them if it does not handle some badly made HTML. I even think is will better support XHTML (XML) than HTML (SGML) and do not forget the reste of my post "and TXT"

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Godzil

The Cybook is NOT a webbrowser, and you cannot blame them if it does not handle some badly made HTML. I even think is will better support XHTML (XML) than HTML (SGML) and do not forget the reste of my post "and TXT"

There is a different between not handling and reboot. There is not excuse to write the programs so that the device reboots. What happens is that you navigate to an HTML file which takes a long time since there are no folders. Then the Cybook reboots and the navigation starts from the beginning. So when you try to fix the HTML file you still have to navigate 200 books or so to get to the modified file which then reboots the Cybook again.

The support for txt does not work properly since you cannot change the character set for the txt file.

I am also waiting for them to restore the battery time to what it was for the first firmware. Since my Cybook broke I got a model were I cannot runt the old firmware.

[etherspin]

I think that bugfixes should without question be free - when a product has a physical malfunction or known issue it is recalled or can be returned, if not by the store it was bought in then by the manufacturor but because bugs in software arent permanent firmware updates exist - these should be free.

with additional functionality I think its ok for the user to make a choice to outlay more money - as long as it isnt simply a feature that was switched OFF initially to allow for more money making later

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by Godzil

Heu, they HAVE working HTML and TXT.

Yes, if by "working HTML" you mean that Cybook opens few test html files they tested with, and doesn't crash. No, if by "working HTML" I mean that it should be able to open every HTML file that works on a browser, and not crash. I don't require it to render all the content, I know that would be quite hard to do.

With TXT, I can't make it display properly Polish books - there's no way to set character encoding the TXT file is in. It only handles pure ASCII TXT at the moment, that's not "working TXT" for me.

With HTML, I can set character encoding with a tag, but Cybook doesn't handle the tag, and doesn't render Polish HTML correctly, even if it doesn't crash. I made sure the font used to render the HTML file contains all Polish characters.

Originally Posted by Godzil

But they NEVER promise folder support. The only thing they said is that it was on their todo list, along a plenty of other things

About folder support, yes, they phrased it so I was led to believe that I will have it in the matter of months, and that made me buy Cybook - but the whole matter is a bit complicated, and I lack time to put together all the advertising texts and emails I sent and received.

[Godzil]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

Yes, if by "working HTML" you mean that Cybook opens few test html files they tested with, and doesn't crash. No, if by "working HTML" I mean that it should be able to open every HTML file that works on a browser, and not crash. I don't require it to render all the content, I know that would be quite hard to do.

Ok so every browser on the world are not "working HTML" There is always some pages that will crash your browser.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by tompe

I depends when you bough your device. promises were made on the blog and in other places and people buying the device after these promises were made should get the things that were promised.

And I am still waiting for working html support that does not crash the reader so often. So I am still wating for a lot of bug fixes but I will never see these fixes so I will never buy a Bookeen product in the future.

Don't buy anything if it don't a fonction X you need, even if the company said it will be supported. things can (if not will), go wrong.
And if you translate "we plan to" as "we promise to", sorry to say it, that's you problem, not bookeen's.