Amazon Censorship Expands

[Andrew H.]

Amazon is no different from a traditional publisher with respect to the books it carries *except* that it allows publishes the books first and then pulls them if there is a problem.

No one would be crying "censorship" if HarperCollins or another tradpub rejected this book, nor would anyone be complaining that that HC should have set out "standards," and should presumptively publish every book except those that didn't meet the written standards. This would be stupid.

And complaining about Amazon doing the same thing as a tradpub, except afterwards, is likewise stupid. Plus, this way you can add a "banned by Amazon!" blurb to your book.

Re: fiduciary duty - it's reasonable for Amazon to conclude that they would lose more business carrying certain books than they would gain by carrying the books. In any event, the business judgment rule gives companies a lot of leeway, so your proposed derivative suit will fail.

[Salgueiros]

Originally Posted by eppythacher

When people say "They are business, it's not censorship. They can sell whatever they want", I am reminded of the following:

Giosué Orefice: "No Jews or Dogs Allowed." Why do all the shops say, "No Jews Allowed"?
Guido: Oh, that. "Not Allowed" signs are the latest trend! The other day, I was in a shop with my friend the kangaroo, but their sign said, "No Kangaroos Allowed," and I said to my friend, "Well, what can I do? They don't allow kangaroos."
Giosué Orefice: Why doesn't our shop have a "Not Allowed" sign?
Guido: Well, tomorrow, we'll put one up. We won't let in anything we don't like. What don't you like?
Giosué Orefice: Spiders.
Guido: Good. I don't like Visigoths. Tomorrow, we'll get a sign: "No Spiders or Visigoths Allowed."

La vita é bella, Roberto Begnini.

One thing is WHAT you sell, other is to WHO you sell.... i think you are mixing concepts here. Amazon sells to everyone, but, like a bakery does not sells cement, they choose to stock some product instead of other. Are we going to force all businesses to sell whatever we want them to sell because we want them to?

[susan_cassidy]

If a paper publisher refuses to publish a book, is that censorship? No.

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Re: fiduciary duty - it's reasonable for Amazon to conclude that they would lose more business carrying certain books than they would gain by carrying the books. In any event, the business judgment rule gives companies a lot of leeway, so your proposed derivative suit will fail.

You're right, it would fail. But think about this. The big 3 TV companies, CBS, ABC, NBC, are losing money to non censored cable companies like HBO because of shows like the Sopranos and Dexter. As a business trying to make money, does censorship make you money?

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

One thing is WHAT you sell, other is to WHO you sell.... i think you are mixing concepts here. Amazon sells to everyone, but, like a bakery does not sells cement, they choose to stock some product instead of other. Are we going to force all businesses to sell whatever we want them to sell because we want them to?

In Canada, do they force bakeries to have menus in French and English? If I'm a company, why force me to double the cost of printing 2 menus?

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

If a paper publisher refuses to publish a book, is that censorship? No.

It depends on the reason it was not published.

Here's the definition of Censorship from Wikipedia:

Censorship is suppression of speech or other communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.

Don't trust Wikipedia? Here's Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary's definition of the word censor:

To examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable

[gtriever]

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

if Netflix refused to carry snuff flicks would you be upset?

Also, from the Author of the banned books to Amazon:

I'm at a loss as to understand how my books violated your content guidelines. They are not pornographic and have solid stories and meaning behind them. The sex in them is not that much more detailed than what you find in Jackie Collins' and Judith Krantz's novels, all of which can be found in a library. Also, you carry items that celebrate the torture and murder of women (see "Saw2" "Hostel 2" (oops) where a naked female is strung upside down and butchered so her blood can bathe another naked female lying under her) and the gleeful slaughter of human beings ("American Psycho", for example).

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by gtriever

Lol, this should further confuse the topic:

http://www.facebook.com/amazoncensors

[Doug Huffman]

What'd Burke say, or not? ""The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Here's more https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archive

[Salgueiros]

Originally Posted by eppythacher

In Canada, do they force bakeries to have menus in French and English? If I'm a company, why force me to double the cost of printing 2 menus?

Everything in the Federal government is bilingual... however, no bookstore is forced to sell books in english and/or french. The owner decides.

[screwballl]

Originally Posted by gtriever

Thats pretty much how I see this... people complaining that they do not have the power to tell another person or company what to do or how to do it.

Good show, keep it up.

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

Everything in the Federal government is bilingual... however, no bookstore is forced to sell books in english and/or french. The owner decides.

Thanks for the info, I was not sure. I worked for a company that wanted to do business in Canada, I think we had to have everything in 2 languages?

[Salgueiros]

Originally Posted by eppythacher

Thanks for the info, I was not sure. I worked for a company that wanted to do business in Canada, I think we had to have everything in 2 languages?

If you want to sell to anglophones and francophones in Canada it is a good idea to have the two languages. But you may choose not to...

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

If you want to sell to anglophones and francophones in Canada it is a good idea to have the two languages. But you may choose not to...

http://www.ogilvyrenault.com/en/expertise_9691.htm
Err.. what about this?

Canada is officially bilingual: Conforming to English / French Language Laws

American companies doing business in Quebec need to make adjustments to conform to the province's language laws. In addition, unique Canadian labeling laws means that US companies must adhere to Canada's two language/bilingual policies.

What you need to know: The Quebec Charter of the French Language requires that a company conducting business in Quebec use a French version of its name. In addition, the federal Consumer Packaging Act requires certain labeling, for example, for pre-packaged consumer products, to be in both French and English. In addition, materials accompanying products sold in Quebec, such as warranties, must be in French.

In the pro vs anti censorship debate, the Pros don't like other people telling companies what they can or can not sell. This Quebec law has the effect of:
Any company that wants to do business in Canada has to double their printing costs. I honestly don't think anyone cares, yet the Pros don't like forcing companies to sell products? How about this, if you want to do business with the US you have to be anti-censorship?