Would you benefit from file manager on your Kobo reader?

Originally Posted by theonna

Kindle collections are written in one file on the device, so you can create that file on your computer and then transfer it to you KIndle, this way creating your collections faster. On Kobo all recordings go through database, so this way would be impossible.

Actually, it doesn't sound like there is much of a difference. You can modify the Kobo database from a PC using SQLite.

[theonna]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Actually, it doesn't sound like there is much of a difference. You can modify the Kobo database from a PC using SQLite.

Then why Calibre does not create Kobo database? It seems that it would be more efficient not to require Kobo to process new books, if Calibre could just create the database?
Also for Kindle - file describing collections, only describes collections, if case of corruption, you only loose collection information. For Kobo database corruption will cost you more, because you would need to relog, then resync and reprocess all your books. So unless you are absolutely sure what your are doing you probably don't want to mess with SQLite editing Kobo database. In short there is no manual, and it is not a userfriendly task.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by theonna

Then why Calibre does not create Kobo database? It seems that it would be more efficient not to require Kobo to process new books, if Calibre could just create the database?

The Kobo driver will create the appropriate database entries for the shelves, and modify the rows that describe the books, but it doesn't create these rows. Why? Because I'm chicken. I've looked at the database rows needed and I have worked out most of what Kobo has put into them. But, there are some values I am not sure of. I have tried and when I compared what I had with what the device created, it wasn't quite right. Plus, it is a moving target. Kobo do change the database and exactly how the books are defined over time. Overall, it isn't worth it. Someone else has tried, and gave up fairly quickly.

Also for Kindle - file describing collections, only describes collections, if case of corruption, you only loose collection information. For Kobo database corruption will cost you more, because you would need to relog, then resync and reprocess all your books. So unless you are absolutely sure what your are doing you probably don't want to mess with SQLite editing Kobo database. In short there is no manual, and it is not a userfriendly task.

Yep, manually editing the database is not for everyone. But, it would not be very hard to create a script that would be safe. In fact, a few different ones have been posted here.

[moffattm]

Originally Posted by taming

I don't actually need this, but I belileve someone wrote about using and editing an xml file on the kindle device and liking that.

Yup, on the Kindle there is a single JSON file called collections.json which holds all the information about the collections on the device. It's been reverse-engineered and someone has created a Collections Manager for editing the file. More info here.

[theonna]

Originally Posted by davidfor

The Kobo driver will create the appropriate database entries for the shelves, and modify the rows that describe the books, but it doesn't create these rows. Why? Because I'm chicken. I've looked at the database rows needed and I have worked out most of what Kobo has put into them. But, there are some values I am not sure of. I have tried and when I compared what I had with what the device created, it wasn't quite right. Plus, it is a moving target. Kobo do change the database and exactly how the books are defined over time. Overall, it isn't worth it. Someone else has tried, and gave up fairly quickly.

You are not chicken, you don't have enough information. And you probably don't have telepathic connection to Kobo programmers.
I am grateful that Calibre works with Kobo. Without Calibre Kobo would not be as convenient to use.
I used to avoid using Calibre, because it would sometimes give me unpredictable results, like embedding fonts on one computer and not on the other with exactly same settings. But so far I am very impressed on how Kobo plugins deal with Kobo devices.
I still long for file manager though.

[leslie_ms]

I don't need it and I don't want it.

I use my Touch as a device on which to read books, not store them. Therefore, I don't need a way to organize them on the ereader.

Right now every ebook I ever bought is on my Touch but if I had to do a factory reset or if I replaced it, I wouldn't bother loading all my books.

Most books I read once and that's it. When I read a book a second time, it's always years later. By that time, my current ereader will be long gone.


Leslie

[theonna]

leslie_ms
For your use, I'd agree with you completely. You probably won't even need all of the room you got on your Touch. I don't know if you like archiving your books on your computer, if you do, then years later you have a chance to go to your archive and find your old book. And may be Kobo would survive too.
But idea of a large on device collection of books works for extended trips, long hiking vacations, where you know your eink device would have enough charge, but would not have internet access.

Originally Posted by theonna

But idea of a large on device collection of books works for extended trips, long hiking vacations, where you know your eink device would have enough charge, but would not have internet access.

I think it's best to justify the feature by saying: some people want to carry their entire library with them.

I doubt that many people would read more than a hundred books if they went on vacation for a year, which the Kobo can handle reasonably well. Some people are talking about storing thousands of books on their device. That's not a vacation without Internet access. That's retirement without Internet access!

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I think it's best to justify the feature by saying: some people want to carry their entire library with them.

I doubt that many people would read more than a hundred books if they went on vacation for a year, which the Kobo can handle reasonably well. Some people are talking about storing thousands of books on their device. That's not a vacation without Internet access. That's retirement without Internet access!

I've got ~1650 books on my Aura at this time. It's not that I am going to read all of those books in the next month or two -- even I don't read that fast. However, I do like to read a mix of old and new books. Often after reading a new book, I'll go back and reread other books by the same author or books that I think have similar themes so it's convenient to have them easily accessible. If I want more, I can always boot up my laptop and check the rest of my library.

As for retirement without Internet access, going by my current reading statistics, with 1650 books and reading 8 hours per day, I've got about 7 months worth of books. A bit long for a vacation but waayyy too short for retirement.

Regards,
David

[theonna]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Some people are talking about storing thousands of books on their device. That's not a vacation without Internet access. That's retirement without Internet access!

Indeed. But some people do just that. Also some people give Kobos as gifts to their parents and older friends and relatives, who aren't that good with computers, so that is exactly what they are aiming to do- giving them lifetime library on Kobo.
At the end it all boils down to personal preferences and personal style of using ebook reader.
No matter the style having a file browser would not hurt anybody's enjoyment of their Kobo.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by theonna

leslie_ms
For your use, I'd agree with you completely. You probably won't even need all of the room you got on your Touch. I don't know if you like archiving your books on your computer, if you do, then years later you have a chance to go to your archive and find your old book. And may be Kobo would survive too.
But idea of a large on device collection of books works for extended trips, long hiking vacations, where you know your eink device would have enough charge, but would not have internet access.

A long trip or hiking vacation, even 100 books is going to take very long trip or hiking vacation even if you are strolling along the hiking trail with your nose buried in your Kobo.

Perhaps an idea for the next Kobo commercial -- a couple walking along a hiking trail, beautiful scenery (mountains with snow on them, lakes, trees, wild flowers), various animals (big horn sheep, mountain goats, bears, deer, moose, etc.) popping in and out of view and the two of them with their noses buried in their ereaders totally oblivious to the beauty around them.

The reason that came to mind was a hiking trip near Banff where one couple was so engrossed in their guidebook that they never looked around at the real world.

Regards,
David

[TechniSol]

I'm all about choice, and I can see how people might find it convenient to have all their books on the reader. Let's say you're reading a couple of books, but just aren't in the mood to continue a particular title, or you're in the mood for something new... What I don't see is why you'd need a file browser to find it. I wouldn't mind having one, or just a more sophisticated method of ordering the titles I'd like to browse through. I just can't see that an actual file browser is required, or how having to browse in only the way the file system was organized would be more helpful.

I'd like a multi level search/browser that lets me select the hierarchy or presentation order or sort. Once the list had been narrowed a bit, a search that operated on the results and allowed you to search for key words in a metadata summary would be pretty cool as well... This is a far more powerful and useful tool than a mere file browser. Let the machine do the heavy lifting. Searching, sorting, and repetition are what computers are designed to do best despite all the multi-media and communication tasks we throw at them now.

I'm amazed at how far we've come in 30 years. I'm sitting in my living room, communicating with people with common interests from around the world by "typing" on a virtual keyboard on an 8" 1024x768 resolution backlit 1.5Ghz dual-core android JB tablet with a capacitive screen just about the size of an iPad mini(8x6x.37"), that I picked up on a whim for $99 in a Walmart while grocery shopping, via a wireless(at least on my end) global communications network. Why should we settle for a forty+ year old file browser concept?

Originally Posted by theonna

No matter the style having a file browser would not hurt anybody's enjoyment of their Kobo.

I agree that a lot of it depends upon personal preference and style. I also agree that having a file browser wouldn't hurt anyone's enjoyment of their Kobo. I just diverge from your opinion because the "just one more feature" philosophy doesn't work very well.

I once read a story about Microsoft Office. Now a lot of people loved Microsoft Word 5.1 for the Mac. It is usually cited as having the features that people need, no more and not much less. If you asked people how to improve Word 5.1 for the Mac, they would usually come back with one feature request. The thing to understand is that the feature would differ from user to user, but it would not amount to a large change to Word. Yet put altogether, it would amount to a huge change. It is something that rang true to me because I could see myself in that position: there is only one feature that I wanted to see added to Word 5.1 to perfect it. (Note: I'd probably think differently today, but it was true at the time the article was written.) Now you take those individual feature requests and create a new product. The product that you end up with ends up being disliked because it is unwieldily. You ended up with Word 6.0.

When I see these requests of Kobo, I see much the same thing. Even if you ignore the bug fixes, which would improve the product without affecting how people use it, you still end up with an assortment of feature requests that have the potential to make Kobo readers much more complex to use. To make it more concrete: a full screen reading mode sounds great, a file browser sound wonderful, the ability to specify formatting is empowering, and so forth. Individually, these may make a nicer device. Altogether, they make a contraption that is so complex to use that customers would rather not use it.

So I'm not saying that I disagree with you on the minutia. I do disagree with you on the consequences. In the end, Kobo should do their market research and justify each feature based upon their customer's needs as a whole rather than fulfilling individual requests that are honest but would produce an unmarketable product.

Originally Posted by DNSB

The reason that came to mind was a hiking trip near Banff where one couple was so engrossed in their guidebook that they never looked around at the real world.

I've lived in Vancouver and in stone's throw of the western side of the Rockies (Calgary). I can totally see a Vancouverite burying their nose in a guide book rather than looking at the real world because the Pacific coast is amazing in comparison. The diversity of plant and animals in Vancouver is amazing. You don't even have to leave the city to see animals like coyotes and a much richer variety of birds than you'll see in the wilderness west of the Rockies. I think it's safe to say that you'll see more variety in the plants of a square meter of the lower mainland than you'll see in a square kilometre of most parts of Canada.

So feel free to admit that the hiker engrossed in the guidebook was you.

[theonna]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Why should we settle for a forty+ year old file browser concept?

We'd be settling if we had opportunity for better. Unfortunately we don't have even a fourty+ year file browser, which would have worked for some tasks still better than your idea of futuristic multi level search, because you'd still need more keyboards, which we also don't have.