08-23-2021, 05:12 PM | #31 |
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Right, but I thought they were also for making text bold?
Last edited by hobnail; 08-23-2021 at 05:49 PM. |
08-23-2021, 05:15 PM | #32 |
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08-23-2021, 07:04 PM | #33 | ||||||||
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That's another reason why <em> was introduced: English (and most Latin-alphabets) tend to use italics for emphasis. But Asian languages don't have such a thing as italics. They emphasize using dots (and other symbols). As the internet spread across the world, there were more and more cases where <i> and <b> failed. Side Note #1: For emphasis, along with italics, there's been lots of different display types:
For a little more info, see Wikipedia: "Emphasis (Typography)". But you can clearly see how E M P H A S I S is a distinct category from plain old italics. Side Note #2: A lot of the multi-lingual stuff was being discussed at the end of the very last thread: "<i>, <em> or <span> for italics ?" (Post #151+) There was a TUG talk given in 2020: "Typographical expression of emotions in a variety of alphabet systems"... I should re-contact them and see if they ever posted the lecture online. Sadly, I signed up for the conference, but missed the livestream of that talk. Quote:
But I agree, HTML5's explanation of <strong> is a little... ehhhh... Quote:
See the fantastic article me+Toxaris (and others) always point to: Wikipedia: "Quotation mark" > Summary Table Around the world, there's every single combination under the sun for quote marks. Just so happens to be, in English, the "apostrophe" + "right single quote" (single "close quote") settled on using the same-looking symbol. Just like it just so happens to be, in English, emphasis settled on italics. Quote:
And it's an example where lots of proper markup is used. Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it's not out there (and should be strived towards). Quote:
A lot of my work is cleaning up 10+-year old EPUBs that were poorly converted, bringing them up to date + following the latest standards. Another large chunk is compilations—taking chapters from multiple books, combine into a single book. (When you combine books, you typically have to normalize the texts so they are consistent within themselves. [Like all UK spelling/quotes -> US spelling/quotes.]) Or releasing a single, larger chapter as a standalone. (My latest 3 projects were 1 in each of these categories!) Quote:
(Seriously, it only takes ~30 minutes to watch a few of those Styles videos... and it'll save any author TONS of time.) Yes, you'll still have 99% of the crowd mindlessly clicking the BOLD + CENTER + FONT SIZE buttons (hundreds of times)... but once you unleash the power of Styles, wow. See my most recent Styles post on Reddit: and my Styles posts in 2019/2020:
If it's people who will be working with me over the years... Styles just saved them+me hundreds of hours of work. And the more they plan on writing, the more and more time Styles will save. There's absolutely no reason NOT to use Styles! And if I can take it down from 99% to 98% people, wow... take one down, pass it around, 98% who don't use Styles on the wall! Quote:
For example, I always converted all tables into actual <table>, but I had no idea about <thead> until recently. <thead> allows long tables (or tables that get split across pages) to carry headings over + allows the computer to understand main headings (instead of trying to guess). Accessibility Ranking So, let's say we were going from worst -> best. An image of a table is worst: Code:
<img alt="" src="../Table1.png"/> Code:
<img alt="Table 1" src="../Table1.png"/> Code:
<table> <tr> <th>Name</th> <th>Age</th> </tr> <tr> <td>Tex</td> <td>999</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Example</td> <td>123</td> </tr> </table> Code:
<table> <thead> <tr> <th scope="col">Name</th> <th scope="col">Age</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td>Tex</td> <td>999</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Example</td> <td>123</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
So, if we look at the ebook as a whole, that little list I gave in Post #21 are the major fixes, and probably gets you 75% of the way there:
Then each of those little Accessibility/markup enhancements slowly add up... taking care of edge cases + alternate ways of reading. The code in the ebook is much more than just surface visuals. Quote:
Last edited by Tex2002ans; 08-23-2021 at 07:26 PM. |
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08-23-2021, 10:17 PM | #34 |
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Nope. A heading in fiction is a block of several paragraphs. A heading in HTML is a single paragraph. They just don't mix.
The only possible use is creating a fake H# element with a manually generated title. (Yes, in fiction, you cannot derive the TOC text from the header automatically). |
08-23-2021, 10:21 PM | #35 | ||
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08-23-2021, 11:00 PM | #36 | |
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A heading in fiction has several block parts forming an indivisible unit: the chapter text (without a final punctuation), like "Chapter VII", the chapter illustration, the chapter name (with the final punctuation in some languages), and the chapter synopsis (which can sometimes be present in the TOC). The TOC text is different from the actual header: it can be a simple list (like in The Lord of the Rings), or the numbering/name may be different, the punctuation will usually be present, and the chapter name punctuation will be absent. The text editors or macrolanguages like Latex can handle that easily, but not HTML, a dumb language for technical documentation. |
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08-24-2021, 12:00 AM | #37 | |
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Code:
<h2 title="II. The Storm">CHAPTER II<br/>THE STORM</h2> |
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08-24-2021, 01:44 AM | #38 | |
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You can see it especially well in initials, where the first letter of the chapter is represented by a picture. I have seen it many times: the alt text then reads "Letter A" (assuming the image shows letter A). This is nonsense. The correct alt text is "A", not "Letter A" or "Initial A" or anything else. If I have the publisher's logo on the cover, then the correct alt text is "Raqndom House", "Penguin Books" or whatever the publisher is called, but neither the name of the image "publisher-logo.png" or "logo" or anything like that makes sense. In your case "The e-book creator did not care about disabled people" should be in the title attribute or further hints in the longdesc attribute, where in the longdesc attribute only URIs may occur. EReaders certainly don't evaluate this, whether reading software does it I don't know. For descriptive content the alt-attribute is the wrong place. |
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08-24-2021, 01:52 AM | #39 | |
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The USER can generate different TOC text. H# elements do not help here.
Quote:
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08-24-2021, 02:49 AM | #40 |
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Mistakes made by others are no excuse for your own mistakes. Bad examples are not arguments for one's own opinion. References to the mistakes of others are distracting whataboutism.
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08-24-2021, 08:19 AM | #41 |
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Sarmat, I'm not sure if you honestly believe what you are saying, have little/no experience with ebooks, or are just yanking our chain???
I regularly use a heading tag for the "block groups" you are talking about: Code:
h3 {font-weight:bold; text-align:center; font-size:1.3em; font-family:serif} h3 img {display:block; margin:1em auto; width:50%; max-width:600px} h3 span {display:block; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:1.1em} <h3 title="1 - Having a Little Fun">Chapter 1 <img alt="Gryffindor Crest" src="../Images/ChHd.png"/> <span>Having a Little Fun</span></h3> It allows proper hierarchy for the different sections of the book: Code:
<h1> - Cover/Title <h2> - Part, Section, or Book name <h3> - Chapter, Appendix, or glossary <h4> - Subchapter, Appendix/Glossary sections, etc. For you to say that heading tags are not used, or are useless, is simply incorrect (hogwash). You may say that YOU don't use them but that is about all... |
08-24-2021, 08:48 AM | #42 | |
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YOU are deciding that "a heading in fiction consists of several block parts forming an indivisible unit." That's YOUR choice. That isn't a rule and it's not law and it's not anything but your opinion. If you wish to hamper yourself thus, that's your problem. The rest of us manage to muddle along quite nicely with HTML, and other uses (like pretty much any word processor on the planet, which also wouldn't recognize 3-4-5 "block units" as "a" heading, either...) Hitch |
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08-24-2021, 08:58 AM | #43 |
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Sarmat89 is quite often the sole voice of authority on whatever topic they deign to comment on.
Engagement is futile. "Hogwash" suffices. Lets move on. |
08-24-2021, 11:10 AM | #44 | |
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08-24-2021, 12:03 PM | #45 | ||
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