Lots of short chapters, yes or no?

[gmw]

Originally Posted by ekbell

Sort of? I suggested adding higher level divisions (pov chapters grouped into sections/parts) rather then moving the pov bits down a level (chapters divided into subchapters) but either way you end up with pov groupings.

However Pulpmeister's idea would definitely produce a cleaner Table of Contents then mine.

I am pleased that I did understand you correctly the first time (but it had already got me to wondering about variations on the theme).

What I didn't mention in my first response is that when I published my first books I did experiment with TOC hierarchies (my first books have parts as well as chapters). They can work okay in the front matter where it is just a matter of layout, but you have to be careful of them with the metadata TOC because ereaders vary a lot in how (or even if) they cope with hierarchies. It may be that they've improved since I last researched this aspect, but I am still wary of introducing anything unusual.

[Tarana]

The chapters in Game of Thrones seem about right as a good gauge. I'm listening to the audio book and they are about 25 minutes. Yes, there are some shorter and some longer, but the general gist seems very comfortable.

[gmw]

Tarana, Game of Thrones isn't an ideal example for me. I had trouble finishing the first book and haven't gone back for any more.

Still thinking about this, and there is another way to play with the sub-chapter idea, but it reverses what I said about not needing to take additional care to introduce the character at a change of context. But, hey, am I a writer or not?

If I rewrite the opening paragraph of each new section (sub-chapter) to start with the character name then I can use drop-cap/initial formatting as a way of making it stand out a bit like a sub-chapter heading. I'd still use the "- - -" breaks in case some ereader formatting stuffs up the initial.

Chapter 10.

Carla said ...
- - -
Ruth wondered ...
- - -
Matt thought ...
- - -

Of course, having reworded the opening paragraph the highlighting is largely redundant (and could be a bad thing, since I sometimes find that overly fancy initials just make the text harder to read). Just a thought. As if I really needed yet another choice. I might put off finishing the story just to avoid having to decide.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by gmw

Tarana, Game of Thrones isn't an ideal example for me. I had trouble finishing the first book and haven't gone back for any more.

Still thinking about this, and there is another way to play with the sub-chapter idea, but it reverses what I said about not needing to take additional care to introduce the character at a change of context. But, hey, am I a writer or not?

If I rewrite the opening paragraph of each new section (sub-chapter) to start with the character name then I can use drop-cap/initial formatting as a way of making it stand out a bit like a sub-chapter heading. I'd still use the "- - -" breaks in case some ereader formatting stuffs up the initial.

Chapter 10.

Carla said ...
- - -
Ruth wondered ...
- - -
Matt thought ...
- - -

Of course, having reworded the opening paragraph the highlighting is largely redundant (and could be a bad thing, since I sometimes find that overly fancy initials just make the text harder to read). Just a thought. As if I really needed yet another choice. I might put off finishing the story just to avoid having to decide.

"The Martian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury and "I Robot" by Isaac Asimov are good examples of books with short chapters.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by crich70

"The Martian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury and "I Robot" by Isaac Asimov are good examples of books with short chapters.

These are both short story collections. "I, Robot" contains some loose linking through Susan Calvin, but each is still an independent story. It's been so long since I read "The Martian Chronicles" that I can't remember the details, but seem to remember they formed a sort of loose history while still remaining independent stories.

[Cinisajoy]

Finish the book and then the TOC can be figured out. You have me curious about the book now.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Finish the book and then the TOC can be figured out. You have me curious about the book now.

You've stumbled on my hidden agenda

It seems to me that a big part of writing is finding things to worry over (also referred to as procrastination).

I am definitely going to finish writing it, because I want to know what happens (more accurately, I want to know how it happens, I have a reasonable idea how it ends now). I can't guarantee I will end up publishing it. Aside from not knowing yet whether I think it will end up good enough to suffer through the publication process, I also think it is going to be a hard one to sell. It is ostensibly contemporary fantasy (or maybe contemporary science fantasy) but the first half of it is very light on the fantasy. I think it will be, effectively, two books, with a definite change over half-way, but at the moment I expect to publish it as one*.

P.S. Please don't hold your breath waiting. It's been going well for the last month or so, but my work commitments get pretty heavy as the Australian end of financial year comes around (30-June), and that will put a dent in the momentum.

* I'm not a fan of cliff-hangers at the end of books. Okay, so I had one at the end of the second book of my already published series, but the length left me very little choice. This time around I hope to fit it all in under 500 pages - at least I hope so, it was never intended to be this big when I started it.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by gmw

You've stumbled on my hidden agenda

It seems to me that a big part of writing is finding things to worry over (also referred to as procrastination).

I am definitely going to finish writing it, because I want to know what happens (more accurately, I want to know how it happens, I have a reasonable idea how it ends now). I can't guarantee I will end up publishing it. Aside from not knowing yet whether I think it will end up good enough to suffer through the publication process, I also think it is going to be a hard one to sell. It is ostensibly contemporary fantasy (or maybe contemporary science fantasy) but the first half of it is very light on the fantasy. I think it will be, effectively, two books, with a definite change over half-way, but at the moment I expect to publish it as one*.

P.S. Please don't hold your breath waiting. It's been going well for the last month or so, but my work commitments get pretty heavy as the Australian end of financial year comes around (30-June), and that will put a dent in the momentum.

* I'm not a fan of cliff-hangers at the end of books. Okay, so I had one at the end of the second book of my already published series, but the length left me very little choice. This time around I hope to fit it all in under 500 pages - at least I hope so, it was never intended to be this big when I started it.

Don't worry I won't hold my breath. I understand life happens.

[crich70]

A non-fiction example (IMO) is "The Bible." Chapter lengths in the 66 books can vary quite a bit. Fiction isn't the only form of writing that can have short chapters.

[charis9]

Personally, I prefer short chapters. Still trying to find the reason of it... I assume it depends on your type of thinking. I have an analytical thinking in the most life situations that is why I prefer, to sum up, what I heard, saw or read through short chapters.

I think there is no the right answer how it should be done.

[gmw]

Thanks, charis9. I believe that you are correct, there is no right answer - though sometimes there are wrong answers.

[charis9]

I hope you will find your right answer.

[E.M.DuBois]

gmw I have to admit, I'm really glad you brought this up. It's kinda inspired me for my next project to see if I can do short chapters. Honestly, I've tried similar projects before, limiting myself to 3-5 pages per chapter, but always ended up bored or distracted. Now I really want to see one through, and have really geared up for it.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

gmw I have to admit, I'm really glad you brought this up. It's kinda inspired me for my next project to see if I can do short chapters. Honestly, I've tried similar projects before, limiting myself to 3-5 pages per chapter, but always ended up bored or distracted. Now I really want to see one through, and have really geared up for it.

Good luck with it. For myself, I find that the story idea seems to dictate this sort of stuff; the current project just sort of fell out this way.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by gmw

Good luck with it. For myself, I find that the story idea seems to dictate this sort of stuff; the current project just sort of fell out this way.

You're right. Chapters do tend to tell you how long they want to be. I don't mind writing the long ones but I like the short ones because there's less typing when I transcribe them.