New 27" iMac announced

[OtinG]

Apple announced a spec bump called a new 27" iMac. For a mere $2300 you get 8 GB of RAM, 512 GB SSD, and not much more. Big MEH! Why would I pay a ridiculous price for under-speced computers. Geez this is 2020, 8 GB of RAM isn't enough for a low end computer anymore. By the time you spec it out to have a decent amount of computer power, it will cost $4000 or more. They have lost their fricking minds...

[JSWolf]

I agree that the new iMac is way overpriced.

[ilovejedd]

This reminds me of an old interview with Steve Jobs.

What ruined Apple wasn’t growth … They got very greedy. Instead of following the original trajectory of the original vision, which was to make the thing an appliance and get this out there to as many people as possible, they went for profits. They made outlandish profits for about four years… What that cost them was their future. What they should have been doing is making rational profits and going for market share.

[JSWolf]

The problem as I see it is that the prices for Apple computers/laptops are too much. I won't buy one because of this. The other issue is that with the cost that apple charges, they shuld not be saying you cannot run the latest OS.

Also, do you want to buy an Intel based Apple computer or get one with their new processor?

[pwalker8]

For the most part, iMacs are more of a specialized market. If you want cheap, there are other options such as the Mac mini. I believe you can get a mac mini with 16 GB for $1000.

I just got an iPad magic keyboard and it's amazing. Combined with a top end iPad and it might kill the MacBook market.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

For the most part, iMacs are more of a specialized market. If you want cheap, there are other options such as the Mac mini. I believe you can get a mac mini with 16 GB for $1000.

I just got an iPad magic keyboard and it's amazing. Combined with a top end iPad and it might kill the MacBook market.

Even Mac Minis have gotten expensive. I seem to recall Mac Mini starting price was $499-599 before, MacBook Air started at $799 and iMac at $999.

[drofgnal]

I agree about price, but the example quoted is the version with the fastest processor, which the average home user doesn't need. The lowest tier processor 27" starts at 1799, the middle tier at 1999. Add 200 for 16 gb of ram and 200 for 1TB storage and you have 2399.

For my money the 21" is good enough. This iMac I'm currently using is about 6 years old, still going strong and I think I paid about 1200 for it.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Even Mac Minis have gotten expensive. I seem to recall Mac Mini starting price was $499-599 before, MacBook Air started at $799 and iMac at $999.

Apple has always been a premium company and never joined the race to the bottom that you see on the Windows side of things. Jobs may have said the quote above, but even in the early days, that isn't what Apple did. Even back in the early 90s, the Mac was more expensive.

A 27 inch iMac is a premium computer that caters to a specific market. I've got one that I got in 2015. I consider the big screen well worth it. The memory is upgradable and Apple memory is expensive, so most people buy with the minimum memory configuration and then upgrade using much cheaper 3rd party memory. That's what I did, it was very easy to do.

I get the impression that most people tend to buy laptops rather than desktops these days.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Apple has always been a premium company and never joined the race to the bottom that you see on the Windows side of things. Jobs may have said the quote above, but even in the early days, that isn't what Apple did. Even back in the early 90s, the Mac was more expensive.

Yes, Apple's always been premium. They've never gone cheap but their non-Pro stuff used to be more affordable for a time.

I was planning on getting a 2020 Mac Mini and doing aftermarket upgrades but apparently, Apple's gone the soldered route for storage and the RAM is very hard to replace. To get 16GB/1TB is $1400 and even 16GB/512GB is $1200.

Sadly, I think the iMac features soldered RAM as well.

I'm curious on whether the switch to in-house Apple silicon could mean more affordable pricing and how well that would work for x86 software.

[OtinG]

Actually, the Apple II line of computers were not "premium" and these were designed by the Woz as an hacker's computer. The were built to allow user expansion, were easy to get into with the lid simply popping off, and easy to modify. Woz was a hacker so he built his dream machine. The Apple II, at least at first, were comparably priced and equipped with other computers on the market in the late 1970s and early 1980s. My first Apple was an Apple II+.

Jobs was totally against that concept. He refused to take part in that kind of computer and insisted on moving to his concept of the Macintosh. The Mac was sleek and ahead of its time. However, they purposely made it difficult to open up and modify. Any mods cost you a small fortune, just like today.

As far as an iPad Pro ever replacing my need for a "real" laptop or desktop computer--no way in hades! iPadOS is NOT macOS or Windows. iPadOS is designed for finger input, not keyboard input. Trying to create/modify spreadsheets and tasks that are similar are not as easy to accomplish as on a laptop or desktop. iPads might be good for social media, web surfing, playing games, etc. But if I want to get a lot of work done in a professional setting, including spreadsheets, programming, image post processing, etc., I’m not using a flipping iPad! It would take ten times longer on an iPad, and many of the tasks I do can’t even be done on the top of line iPad Pro.

BTW, when I talk about image post processing, I’m not talking about taking crappy iPad/iPhone photos and choosing preselected PP enhancements. I'm talking about using full frame and APS-C cameras, then loading a few GBs of RAW images into Lightroom and using Photoshop to finish the processing. I'm talking about stacking and aligning 100+ large RAW images of a deep sky object. Try that with an iPad.

[JSWolf]

Word processing on an iPad is very lacking. Word and other programs are lackluster missing many features.

So depending on what you need to do, an iPad is not a laptop replacement. It can just end up costing more to do less.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

I was planning on getting a 2020 Mac Mini and doing aftermarket upgrades but apparently, Apple's gone the soldered route for storage and the RAM is very hard to replace. To get 16GB/1TB is $1400 and even 16GB/512GB is $1200.

Sadly, I think the iMac features soldered RAM as well

Replacing RAM on the 2017 or later Mac mini or 27” iMac is a DIY job, and it is not soldered. I don’t think that has changed with this new one, it’s the same outside with upgraded internal components.

Watch the respective memory install videos here:
https://macsales.com

The 21.5” iMac is not so DIY. The RAM is not soldered, but you have to pull the glass off to get at it (macsales, maybe Best Buy can do it).

8GB is fine, any reasonable person would get that and then upgrade the RAM, as it is much cheaper than buying it configured with more from Apple. And except for people who need performance, it will be just fine for web surfing email FaceTime etc. It’s nice to have a bigger screen and to know you can upgrade RAM easily when you need to.

But the lowest tier model doesn’t offer any storage options, Fusion drive options having been killed off. With only 256GB, I would have difficulty recommending that to anyone, even if external storage is cheap and can be acceptably fast.

The Upgrade podcast folks suggest that there will not be a major iMac Pro, given the migration to ARM CPUs. I think this is plausible: The Mac Pro line will be the last to migrate. They also think 21.5” will be replaced and get ARM before that, and it should be a better value than the current line up is, whether there will be lower price points remains to be seen.

It will be interesting to see if the ARM-based developer mini will be followed by an official release. I would certainly be interested.

So as the new iMac is mostly to serve Pro users who actually need the performance and can justify paying for it, of course this leans in that direction. The nanotextured option is another example of who this Mac is for.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by tomsem

Replacing RAM on the 2017 or later Mac mini or 27” iMac is a DIY job, and it is not soldered. I don’t think that has changed with this new one, it’s the same outside with upgraded internal components.

Watch the respective memory install videos here:
https://macsales.com

I’ve already watched the RAM install video for the 2018/2020 Mac Mini previously. It’s not within my skill set (just too clumsy and impatient). Ended up just going for an Intel NUC8I5BEH with 32GB RAM+1TB 970 EVO. Second easiest computer I’ve ever built (easiest being the Raspberry Pi).

If the Apple refurb store stocks the Mac Mini again ($649?), I might grab one for my dad. He only uses it for YouTube and Facebook anyway so 8GB+256GB should suffice to replace his Windows 7 PC.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Word processing on an iPad is very lacking. Word and other programs are lackluster missing many features.

So depending on what you need to do, an iPad is not a laptop replacement. It can just end up costing more to do less.

Well, yea, if you want a high end word processor with all the bells and whistles, the you probably don't want the iPad. Pages works fine and is good enough for my needs. Of course, I have yet to find a device that does everything everyone in the world wants, exactly how they want it done for the price they want to pay.

The iPad with the smart keyboard is likely going to be good enough for most people as an on the go laptop replacement. I wouldn't want it to be my only computer though. There are some things that I simply want a desktop computer with a big screen, lots of memory and lots of disk space.

[Deskisamess]

Well, yea, if you want a high end word processor with all the bells and whistles, the you probably don't want the iPad. Pages works fine and is good enough for my needs.

WPS Office works very well also, and also offers a spreadsheet and presentation options.

There is also Word, which has full blown options for those who subscribe to Office 365.

There are very few things I can't manage on my iPad Pro. Calibre and Quicken are the main two.