Interesting view of Amazon through a writer/publisher's eyes

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by pking36330

... If you think that Amazon editing your comments is a free speech issue....

Not necessarily a free speech issue, although some may argue that a "public forum" definition may apply.

However, if Amazon gives the impression, that the reviews on its site are "unbiassed" and "uncensored," other than for offensive language, then these practices may be seen as deceptive.

Just like its surreptitious filtering of Search results is deceptive.

[pking36330]

Originally Posted by Sonist

..."unbiassed" ...

Does that break down into: un-bi-assed

Deceptive filtering of search results? Try 'caveat emptor'! If you don't EXPECT a lucrative business like Amazon to slant everything possible to return biased search results, point to products they own, place favorable reviews first, and other such practices, then you're just not a very savvy consumer (and I have about 30,000 gallons of land I'd like to sell you, its east of Miami).

Do you believe everything in the media? I hope not. You know they are being ideologues for whomever they believe or more likely whomever is paying their salary. You know that every sentence they write is hopelessy biased and all you can hope is to extract a kernal or two of fact that can provide you some insight. Likewise I know that Amazon is looking out for Amazon first and last. They are only looking out for me as far as ensuring I remain a repeat customer. EXPECT them to bias EVERYTHING on the website they own to favor themselves.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Just like its surreptitious filtering of Search results is deceptive.

Do we actually know for certain that they're going to surreptitiously filter results? I know that a bunch of stuff tagged "adult", much of it GLBT-oriented was affected by what they claim to have been an embarrassing and ham-fisted programming error. I heard a lot of speculation about what they were trying to do. I have not seen an actual confirmation of what they wanted the end system to be.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by pking36330

... Try 'caveat emptor'!....

You seem to have a particularly bleak view of the ethics of most businesses. If you really hold such views, you must be a fan either of much increased government regulation, or outright public ownership of all businesses.

At least in my experience, many businesses do play by certain ethical rules, and do not engage on deceptive practices. Most of us had assumed that Amazon is not a Brooklyn-based, fly-by-night outfit.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by pking36330

But claiming a freedom of speech infringement for posting on a business website being edited is NOT the customer's choice. She too can vote with her wallet, but she has no reasonable expectation that Amazon won't take actions to protect their business on their website.

Also, I apologize for the misunderstanding, I wasn't calling daffy4u 'silly', I was saying that thinking Amazon editing her review was a valid FoS complaint was 'silly'. Replace with 'ludicrous', 'totally incorrect' or other term if you find silly offensive. Not my intent and I don't want this to devlove to name calling, we're just discussing a business's perogative to manage what it owns.

I need to back this up. I've been out doing errands and in thinking about this and I realized that there there is a major mis-understanding here. My comment about Freedom of Speech was in reaction to you writing that I (we) should stop wailing.

Get over yourself with the censorship wailing

To that I responded with:

BTW, I have the right to complain (or whine as you call it) as much as I like about Amazon's practices. I'm not willing to give up my Freedom of Speech for a business practice (is that what you really want?).

I now *think* that you took a statement in my first post and my comment about FoS and mixed them as something I was doing or was done to me on Amazon.

That's a MAJOR issue with me (I've ranted about it a few times here at MR). Do not edit what I've written without my permission. How dare they!

My ranting was not about Amazon censoring, it was some censoring done to my posts here on MR. I was just giving an example of how I felt on the subject (people who have been here longer have probably seen those posts).

I had already followed up with a post of Amazon's posting policy showing that they were within their rights.

To be clear, *I* did not write a review on Amazon that was censored and I was *not* claiming Amazon was violating my Freedom of Speech.

If you read my post history for the past year regarding Amazon, you will notice that I've had some lively discussions with many people here on MR (including some who have responded in this thread) where I defended Amazon (call me "cheerleader"). But as time has passed I've been begun to see issues through the detractor's eyes that have made me less than thrilled with Amazon.

I posted the Teleread story because it's another piece of anecdotal evidence of what many have been trying to get me to understand for months that I couldn't see.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Sonist

You seem to have a particularly bleak view of the ethics of most businesses. If you really hold such views, you must be a fan either of much increased government regulation, or outright public ownership of all businesses.

At least in my experience, many businesses do play by certain ethical rules, and do not engage on deceptive practices. Most of us had assumed that Amazon is not a Brooklyn-based, fly-by-night outfit.

Which are they? Big Brother or Fly-by-night? Kind of hard to be both at the same time.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Do we actually know for certain that they're going to surreptitiously filter results? I know that a bunch of stuff tagged "adult", much of it GLBT-oriented was affected by what they claim to have been an embarrassing and ham-fisted programming error. I heard a lot of speculation about what they were trying to do. I have not seen an actual confirmation of what they wanted the end system to be.

You are correct.

But we do know that they've been filtering. We just don't know what exactly.

Since Amazon does not clearly inform its customers, that their searches are being filtered and the results are not as accurate as the customers would reasonably expect them to be, then Amazon is engaging in deceptive practices.

It is up to Amazon, to state their guidelines for filtering, so that their customers can make informed decisions, based on their searches. Until Amazon does, speculation will persist.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Which are they? Big Brother or Fly-by-night? Kind of hard to be both at the same time.

Are you really missing the point?

[Andybaby]

Amazon Is Certainly Big Brother, they hold a large fraction of the worlds computing power. only rivaled my IBM and Google if i remember correctly.

They do want to make money, but, They also want great Customer Service, Great prices, and they also want to change the game to make everyone get a bigger cut of the pie, and if not a bigger piece of a Pie, they want to sell more damn pies, and i think they know how to do that. when the biggest retailer in the wolrd tells you you need to do something, they aren't muscling you, or trying to take away money from you, they are telling you that hey, we can sell it, if you just make it available to us.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Are you really missing the point?

No. I just think your hatred of Amazon is compromising your logic a bit.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

No. I just think your hatred of Amazon is compromising your logic a bit.

I think it might be me who hates Amazon

[Andybaby]

my family has made over 100 orders from amazon over the years. thousands of dollars, and amazons support is the best, their return policy is the best, their reviews are the best, not many sites even have reviews. their shipping is the best.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Alisa

No. I just think your hatred of Amazon is compromising your logic a bit.

Hm, you are talking to someone using a Kindle v.2, and spending thousands every year on various Amazon purchases. My account with them dates from the '90s. So, "hatred" is certainly not the case.

Disappointment, may be. Some of their recent practices have certainly been less than kosher.

But, perhaps your blind love for Amazon is clouding your vision and preventing you from seeing, that even Amazon can be wrong, sometimes.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by pking36330

Obviously none of you are business people.

Amazon OWNS their website. Amazon has the right to post whatever will help them sell and delete whatever won't. In fact, Amazon has a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to do exactly that type of editing.

Get over yourself with the censorship wailing. Unless Amazon serves you a Cease & Desist order for the content of a review you've posted on your own personally-owned website, then you have nothing to gripe at Amazon about. But you have no excuse for gouging Amazon for creating a marketing atmosphere that favors Amazon sales on an Amazon website.

They do have that right, and I have made the same statement before.
However, their customers and suppliers also have a right to criticize and - if they so choose - impose a monetary consequence on Amazon's behavior.

What's good for the goose, as it were.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Hm, you are talking to someone using a Kindle v.2, and spending thousands every year on various Amazon purchases. My account with them dates from the '90s. So, "hatred" is certainly not the case.

Disappointment, may be. Some of their recent practices have certainly been less than kosher.

But, perhaps your blind love for Amazon is clouding your vision and preventing you from seeing, that even Amazon can be wrong, sometimes.

I've been quite critical of them actually. I just don't go so far as to post speculation as fact.