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Old 09-15-2019, 09:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by geek1011 View Post
And I admit kepubify does slightly more then it strictly needs to (but that's about as much extra as it does), but I disagree the HTML cleanup is unnecessary. For cleaning up the HTML, I those fixed were for actual issues I encountered in books, for example self closing title tags, which cause the document to appear empty in stricter parsers such as the one Kobo uses. Note that cleanup doesn't mean beautifying or validating or anything of that sort, which is intrusive
Just being a bit mischievous here ... I'm fairly sure using KTE auto-fixes problems like <title/> purely as a by-product of it using the excellent calibre container functions to read epub and write kepub. It's not necessary to actively run a calibre beautify (pretty_all).

Tags like <title/>, <a id="xxx"/> are auto-expanded and useless (potentially harmful) markup like <i/>, <b/> are auto-removed.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:34 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by geek1011 View Post
In general, I have been referring to my experience with the full conversion, as that the main thing I looked at when first trying Calibre. And the fact I don't totally know what it does refers mainly to the difference between the two processes (I wasn't even totally aware that there was one until it was mentioned here).
The problem with that is that it is rare for others to be talking about the full conversion. Nearly all the discussion about sending kepub to Kobo devices is about the KoboTouchExtended driver. And, as I said before, I find it hard to believe that you didn't know it didn't do a full conversion this based on how many times it has been discussed including me explicitly mentioning it in the thread you started about developing a plugin.
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About the less intrusive part, I am not just referring to KTE, but the fact it requires Calibre and everything it comes with.
Which really means that you want to do it all yourself, so you feel that calibre is intrusive. Whereas a lot of people are just glad there is something to help them.
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And I admit kepubify does slightly more then it strictly needs to (but that's about as much extra as it does), but I disagree the HTML cleanup is unnecessary. For cleaning up the HTML, I those fixed were for actual issues I encountered in books, for example self closing title tags, which cause the document to appear empty in stricter parsers such as the one Kobo uses. Note that cleanup doesn't mean beautifying or validating or anything of that sort, which is intrusive. Invalid HTML will remain as invalid as it used to be, but as little as possible more. Badly formatted HTML will mostly remain that way. I have also had issues with the MS word tags, although I forgot the exact case. But, you have a point about the Adobe stuff being a bit of an extra.
My feeling is that doing the cleanup of the code during the send to the device is not a good idea. You aren't really pushing kepubify as just that, but, having kepubs lying around otherwise is fairly pointless.
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I have had some conversion issues with The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustrop. I don't recall if it was due to KTE or the conversion, but I remember trying multiple times and having it hang or stall.
Something like that would have a lot of code in it and a conversion would probably be a problem. I'd be interested to see if it survived the KoboTouchExtended driver.
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That two paragraphs sums it up pretty well. It's also why I mostly abandoned making a kepubify plugin for Calibre, but may still implement an option to convert an entire library. It is possible to convert an entire Calibre library using kepubify and still use it to manage the books (and multiple people have used this before). Basically, you drag the library on to kepubify, you batch rename the converted ones to .kepub, then you merge it back. You either need to already have kepub entries, update the metadata in the books and reimport as another format, or do a database trick (I think I have the SQL somewhere in one of my emails). I think I detailed most of the process somewhere else before.
Somewhere I think I suggested using the calibre library maintenance to find and add books sent added to the library directories in this way.
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Old 09-15-2019, 01:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
The problem with that is that it is rare for others to be talking about the full conversion. Nearly all the discussion about sending kepub to Kobo devices is about the KoboTouchExtended driver. And, as I said before, I find it hard to believe that you didn't know it didn't do a full conversion this based on how many times it has been discussed including me explicitly mentioning it in the thread you started about developing a plugin.
I don't remember any explicit mentions of the difference between the conversions. I honestly thought they were pretty much the same thing. I'll do some more testing (about the differences) next time I use Calibre (which will probably be in a few weeks, as I want to try a few things with MOBI and AZW files, which don't have good standalone tools, and I'm not interested in making them).

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Which really means that you want to do it all yourself, so you feel that calibre is intrusive. Whereas a lot of people are just glad there is something to help them.
I never said KTE was bad, I only said that there are benefits and uses for both. Calibre is intrusive for my workflow, as in, I don't use Calibre itself, and I also automate the syncing of books between my devices (and KTE doesn't work from the command line). Also, Calibre just isn't suitable for running directly on the Kobo (which I have been experimenting with recently).

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My feeling is that doing the cleanup of the code during the send to the device is not a good idea. You aren't really pushing kepubify as just that, but, having kepubs lying around otherwise is fairly pointless.
I do keep kepubs lying around for various kepub-related experiments. Sometimes, I also keep them lying around so I can quickly transfer them and play around with them. And it is optional to keep them lying around. Also, when else would I do the cleanup? Another reason for the cleanup to happen during the conversion is that not all readers are sensitive to malformed HTML in the same way (some other readers parse it as XML and fail on the slightest syntax error, but are fine with self-closing title tags), and the cleanup kepubify does is specifically intended for the kepub reader. Quite a few people like their original books untouched.

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Something like that would have a lot of code in it and a conversion would probably be a problem. I'd be interested to see if it survived the KoboTouchExtended driver.
The last time I tried converting it with a full conversion (and actually waited for it to finish), it mostly survived the process, but the fonts on the code were a bit messed up. Surprisingly, the spacing worked fine.

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Somewhere I think I suggested using the calibre library maintenance to find and add books sent added to the library directories in this way.
Yes, I think I remember that too. I've actually been getting more requests for how to do this recently, so I'm considering adding it as a separate command for kepubify. How stable is the format of Calibre's metadata database?

Last edited by geek1011; 09-15-2019 at 01:32 PM. Reason: More justification for when the cleanup is done.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:30 PM   #19
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What's the difference between Calibre vanilla (no plugins), kepubify (this thread), and KePub Output?
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:00 PM   #20
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I don't think Calibre can convert documents to Kepub without a plugin.

And KePub Output is old, you have to use KoboTouchExtended. That, if I'm right, it continues to be maintained by dadidfor. Am I wrong, David?

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Old 09-18-2019, 06:18 PM   #21
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As far as I know both of the kepub plugins are still maintained by their original author
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:51 PM   #22
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@geek11: two word about KoboTouchExtended vs kepubify:

1. speed is not an issue for me. Yes, as an user sometimes I feel Calibre slow. Python *is* slow, but it's more simple to code and to maintain. A saw a lot of motivated programmers that refuses to code something that is not near to the metal, and they will soon abandon the project because it's too complicated to code, and no one will continue to maintain it for the same reason. Especially if it's written in that crap language that is C

2. a Calibre plugin is much more powerful, since it integrates not only with a mere converter, but with a full suite, thought to catalogue, add metadata and send books properly to the devices.

3. you can't know what will happen if you transform the HTML, even if you simply fix the syntax and remove useless tags. HTML renderers are various and unpredictable.For example, if you remove an apparently useless tag, you could break some css rule. The keyword is: option. You can add it as an option, maybe true by default, but not force it.

4. don't take it personally, but I know dadivfor by a lot of time. He is skilled in epub and kepub format, Calibre, Kobo and many other e-ink related stuff. You... well, I read a few posts, but you seems to me very noob. The fact that you don't use Calibre plugin but a self-made solution, not configurable, and thinks that Calibre is a crap because is slow confirms my opinion. If you want a fast Calibre plugin, you can use Cython. Very simple and powerful. You don't need C++.

I want to be clear, I have nothing against C++. It's a fantastic language, very powerful. But it's complicated, difficult to maintain, difficult to get help by someone else and it's prone to errors, memory leaks and security flaws if bad programmed. Python on the contrary is a pleasure to code, is readable, it's more simple to maintain and to avoid errors, and you can speed it up with Cython. Or with Python C API, if you want to be more near to the metal.

Last edited by Lucas Malor; 09-18-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:34 PM   #23
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1. speed is not an issue for me. Yes, as an user sometimes I feel Calibre slow. Python *is* slow, but it's more simple to code and to maintain. A saw a lot of motivated programmers that refuses to code something that is not near to the metal, and they will soon abandon the project because it's too complicated to code, and no one will continue to maintain it for the same reason. Especially if it's written in that crap language that is C
It's not written in C. And note that FBInk, along with many other tools by many other people, is written in C. And, you'd find speed an issue if you often make bulk changes to books and factory reset Kobos often to test things.

Quote:
2. a Calibre plugin is much more powerful, since it integrates not only with a mere converter, but with a full suite, thought to catalogue, add metadata and send books properly to the devices.
That is true, and I've never denied it. I've even pointed people to it instead of my own tools.

Quote:
3. you can't know what will happen if you transform the HTML, even if you simply fix the syntax and remove useless tags. HTML renderers are various and unpredictable.For example, if you remove an apparently useless tag, you could break some css rule. The keyword is: option. You can add it as an option, maybe true by default, but not force it.
Calibre does more parsing/reencoding than kepubify. And, many of the transformations are made by specific regexps (it's better to miss a bit than to break the book).

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4. don't take it personally, but I know dadivfor by a lot of time. He is skilled in epub and kepub format, Calibre, Kobo and many other e-ink related stuff. You... well, I read a few posts, but you seems to me very noob. The fact that you don't use Calibre plugin but a self-made solution, not configurable, and thinks that Calibre is a crap because is slow confirms my opinion. If you want a fast Calibre plugin, you can use Cython. Very simple and powerful. You don't need C++.
If you actually read my posts and code, you'd see I have nothing against Calibre itself (I actually think it is quite well-written, but a bit heavy), but it just doesn't fit my needs. I know a lot about EPUBs too (I've read the spec, participated in a few community group calls, and I have contributed to multiple EPUB-related projects).

Quote:
I want to be clear, I have nothing against C++. It's a fantastic language, very powerful. But it's complicated, difficult to maintain, difficult to get help by someone else and it's prone to errors, memory leaks and security flaws if bad programmed. Python on the contrary is a pleasure to code, is readable, it's more simple to maintain and to avoid errors, and you can speed it up with Cython. Or with Python C API, if you want to be more near to the metal.
I don't use C++. I actually strongly dislike it, for some of the reasons you said yourself. But, note that the entire Kobo firmware is written in C++.

Last edited by geek1011; 09-18-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by genoasalami View Post
What's the difference between Calibre vanilla (no plugins), kepubify (this thread), and KePub Output?
Have a look at my earlier post. Calibre without any extra plugins will usually send an epub to the device. But, it can send PDF, CBZ/CBR and others depending on the format you have in the library.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:13 PM   #25
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I don't think Calibre can convert documents to Kepub without a plugin.

And KePub Output is old, you have to use KoboTouchExtended. That, if I'm right, it continues to be maintained by dadidfor. Am I wrong, David?
While the original author is not around as much, he still makes changes as needed. Because of that, I sometimes see and fix a problem before he does.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:26 PM   #26
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4. don't take it personally, but I know dadivfor by a lot of time. He is skilled in epub and kepub format, Calibre, Kobo and many other e-ink related stuff. You... well, I read a few posts, but you seems to me very noob. The fact that you don't use Calibre plugin but a self-made solution, not configurable, and thinks that Calibre is a crap because is slow confirms my opinion. If you want a fast Calibre plugin, you can use Cython. Very simple and powerful. You don't need C++.
I'm not sure if I can express how strongly I disagree with your statement about @geek1011. Recently I've been tasked with doing the technical side of interviews for our team. I really wish I was seeing "noobs" like him.

And while we do have some disagreements, it's more style or the way we do things than anything else.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:37 PM   #27
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Have a look at my earlier post. Calibre without any extra plugins will usually send an epub to the device. But, it can send PDF, CBZ/CBR and others depending on the format you have in the library.
Thanks. This part seemed on point. Based on that, I will continue to use KePub Output which does appear to be maintained currently, right?
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Old 09-19-2019, 06:55 PM   #28
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Most helpful comment evah!

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Originally Posted by Lucas Malor View Post
4. don't take it personally, but I know dadivfor by a lot of time. He is skilled in epub and kepub format, Calibre, Kobo and many other e-ink related stuff. You... well, I read a few posts, but you seems to me very noob. The fact that you don't use Calibre plugin but a self-made solution, not configurable, and thinks that Calibre is a crap because is slow confirms my opinion. If you want a fast Calibre plugin, you can use Cython. Very simple and powerful. You don't need C++.
This meaningless comment comparing two of the most skilled and helpful users of the kobo forum was brought to you by this guy. You might remember him from his previous comments calling "linux noob" to the maintainer of KOReader or keeping a non-sense discussion about how kobos aren't really able to suspend or poweroff.

Remember guys, a clueless individual is not someone who ignores a thing. It is someone that can actively ignoring clues that could lead her/him to a different conclusion. Once clueless individuals did "their research" they won't change the opinion based on new facts and/or they actively reject new facts based on their actual conclusion.

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Old 09-19-2019, 07:07 PM   #29
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It's not written in C. And note that FBInk, along with many other tools by many other people, is written in C.
I know it's not written in C, and I know that C is a necessary evil thing. I'm just joking dude.

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And, you'd find speed an issue if you often make bulk changes to books and factory reset Kobos often to test things.
I don't do bulk changes to books, I don't know why someone should do that, and if you reset Kobo but you have kepubs in Calibre, you'll restore them in minutes. You have described on the contrary a defect of your program.

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Originally Posted by geek1011 View Post
Calibre does more parsing/reencoding than kepubify. And, many of the transformations are made by specific regexps (it's better to miss a bit than to break the book).
I don't know the source code of Calibre or the one of KoboTouchExtended, but I see much options that let you do the reparsing, and they are all disabled by default.

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note that the entire Kobo firmware is written in C++.
Of course, you can't write firmware code in Java or Python. Maybe in Rust.
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Old 09-19-2019, 07:14 PM   #30
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You might remember him from his previous comments calling "linux noob" to the maintainer of KOReader
Never said that. I was just skeptical about the linux skills of someone that does not ever know what is a syslog.

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or keeping a non-sense discussion about how kobos aren't really able to suspend or poweroff.
The nonsense was yours that insisted to say that for Kobo halt and poweroff was the same thing, which was demonstrated to be false. Why you want to remember how much you was WRONG?
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