Amazon reconfigures its Kindle site; reviewers call it "creepy" - Page 4

emmad · 08-15-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you don't want to see it, turn it off. Go to "Settings" and turn off the "Popular Highlights" setting. It's on the 2nd page of "Settings".

Ohh thanks for that

murraypaul · 08-16-2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm confused... which one was I doing by expecting people to read a contract and make a conscious, well thought-out decision on whether or not they see any potential stumbling blocks with the terms of the contract before signing it?

I think it is perfectly reasonably to make a conscious decision that a particular contract term is almost certainly unenforceable, and rather than argue about it before getting the job (which almost certainly means you wouldn't get it), instead wait to see if it is a problem, and then argue about it.
Employers and employees are not negotiating from equal positions.

5thWiggle · 08-16-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

In other news, I'm tired of all this sex on the television...

MUST.....RESIST.....SMART.....A$$.....POST.......
CAN'T....STOP...

Well try it on something softer then!

I'm sooo weak.....sorry

DiapDealer · 08-16-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Employers and employees are not negotiating from equal positions.

When have they ever?
And why should that fact justify knowingly bargaining in bad faith, anyway?

murraypaul · 08-16-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

When have they ever?
And why should that fact justify knowingly bargaining in bad faith, anyway?

If a term of an EULA, or a disclaimer in a movie, or book, was such that you knew it was unenforceable in your jurisdiction, would you refuse to use the software, view the movie, read the book?

DiapDealer · 08-16-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

If a term of an EULA, or a disclaimer in a movie, or book, was such that you knew it was unenforceable in your jurisdiction, would you refuse to use the software, view the movie, read the book?

If your aunt had testicles, would she be your uncle? We were discussing employment contracts, not end-user TOS check-boxes. I don't willingly/knowingly violate any agreement that I put my signature to (or shake a hand over).

afa · 08-16-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If your aunt had testicles, would she be your uncle?

*snorts water through nose*

I don't normally like those little emoticons as a substitute for laughter, but I have to...

afa · 08-16-2011, 08:43 AM

Regarding the (off-topic) debate, both sides have valid points (like any good debate, I guess).

On the one hand, I, too, would argue that people should be aware enough of their contracts to make an informed decision as to whether or not they can live up to the terms and conditions. And, failing that, have a fairly weak argument of injustice.

On the other, as others have said, employers and employees are not equal. The latter, quite often, might not be in a situation where they cannot pick and choose contracts to accept, nor be in a position where they have any power to negotiate terms.

Moral of the story - don't get caught!

anamardoll · 08-16-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't willingly/knowingly violate any agreement that I put my signature to (or shake a hand over).

I thought you were one of the experts on Kindle DRM cracking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If your aunt had testicles, would she be your uncle?

Ooh! I actually know the answer to this one. It depends on which country your aunt resides in -- different countries classify hermaphrodites differently. I saw a documentary once.

MrsJoseph · 08-16-2011, 10:06 AM

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with DiapDealer, you should not sign something that you have every plan to break. I have been faced with contracts that I do not agree with. In every single case I have drawn a line through the offending item and initialed it. I also may write a small note stating that I do not agree to this term. It is now up to the other party to accept your terms or not.

No, employers and employees are not on the same page. That does not take away your ability to negotiate for yourself. It makes no sense to get yourself in that situation. While it is difficult to say, maybe you do not need to accept that job. If you have to have that particular job so much...then you need to abide by your working contract. You can't have it both ways.

Personal integrity is not always the easy way to go but it will always be a better bedfellow than regret.

DiapDealer · 08-16-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't willingly/knowingly violate any agreement that I put my signature to (or shake a hand over).

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I thought you were one of the experts on Kindle DRM cracking.

That's my identical internet cousin, but if it were me... where is the inconsistency? I worded my statement very carefully, specifically because I foresaw the inevitability of this question arising. Not to mention that he (my cousin) wouldn't dream of crying foul later on if he were ever to run into legal problems because of his activities. He understands the consequences fully.

anamardoll · 08-16-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Personal integrity is not always the easy way to go but it will always be a better bedfellow than regret.

I have no regrets when breaking a contract/TOS/agreement/oath/etc. that I consider to be given under duress and not within the rights of the other party to demand in the first place.

So I guess I'd say I take a third option. But then I'm Chaotic Good. My Lawful Neutral husband would probably agree with ya'll.

anamardoll · 08-16-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's my identical internet cousin, but if it were me... where is the inconsistency? I worded my statement very carefully, specifically because I foresaw the inevitability of this question arising. Not to mention that he (my cousin) wouldn't dream of crying foul later on if he were ever to run into legal problems because of his activities. He understands the consequences fully.

I guess the inconsistency would be your careful hewing to any hand-signed agreement, but not so much to a certain digitally-signed agreement?

Also, there's a bit of a goalpost-moving from "I don't violate my word" to "I won't complain if caught". To the best of my knowledge, these teachers didn't complain, either -- *I* am.

None of my business -- again, Chaotic Good -- but I do think there's a certain amount of privilege in this thread that isn't helping the issue.

I think being fired from a job in this day and age for drinking a beer at a BBQ is a heinous act on the part of the employer and should be actionable in court, because the fired person could lose their house and sink into debt for the rest of their life. (That's not even touching the health care issues.) And the fact of the matter is, no one can live to a perfect GODLY LIFE STANDARD -- that's sort of the POINT of Christianity, if I understand the religion properly.

I also think the government has the responsibility to protect its citizens from unfair termination of employment -- if only because a healthy republic isn't built on the backs of the homeless, the hopelessly indebted, and the chronically ill.

Saying, therefore, that the person fired should basically have known better and had a certain brand of "I don't violate paper contracts, but I do break DRM on the weekends" morality is not especially sympathetic-towards-the-wronged-person or helpful-to-the-republic-in-question. It's really only helpful towards the employers who benefit from being able to abuse and dominate people.

I'll bow out of this now because, as you say, I value our friendship.

DiapDealer · 08-16-2011, 10:31 AM

I truly think you're missing my overall, uber-point here:
If you sign a contract knowing full well that you're going to breach it at some point... fine and dandy. But you forfeit the right to bitch about it if/when you get caught in that breach.

So while my apparent breaching of various TOS's might seem to be contradictory (and may in fact be), that doesn't change the fact that I am completely culpable for that breach. And I wouldn't dream of telling my prosecutors that "you had no right to put that clause in there in the first place!"

anamardoll · 08-16-2011, 10:42 AM

Well, if it just boils down to "don't get caught and don't complain if caught"...

I don't know of any teachers who did complain once caught. It was in the news in each case that I saw, but more as a journalist running down the story rather than the teacher ringing up the local news network.

I brought up the point not as a "they should be allowed to complain" but rather "this should not be legal". I really don't care if people complain or not -- up to them.

But that's a far cry from I NEVAR BREAK MY WORD LEST I LOSE HONOR AND DISEMBOWEL MYSELF. Which is what some of this thread sounded like. (Not all from you, I might add.)

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08-16-2011, 08:43 AM	#53
afa The Forgotten Posts: 1,136 Karma: 4689999 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Dubai Device: Kindle Paperwhite; Nook HD; Sony Xperia Z3 Compact	Regarding the (off-topic) debate, both sides have valid points (like any good debate, I guess). On the one hand, I, too, would argue that people should be aware enough of their contracts to make an informed decision as to whether or not they can live up to the terms and conditions. And, failing that, have a fairly weak argument of injustice. On the other, as others have said, employers and employees are not equal. The latter, quite often, might not be in a situation where they cannot pick and choose contracts to accept, nor be in a position where they have any power to negotiate terms. Moral of the story - don't get caught!

08-16-2011, 10:06 AM	#55
MrsJoseph Loves Ellipsis... Posts: 1,554 Karma: 7899232 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Washington, DC Device: Kobo Wifi (broken), nook STR (returned), Kobo Touch, Sony T1	Just my 2 cents. I agree with DiapDealer, you should not sign something that you have every plan to break. I have been faced with contracts that I do not agree with. In every single case I have drawn a line through the offending item and initialed it. I also may write a small note stating that I do not agree to this term. It is now up to the other party to accept your terms or not. No, employers and employees are not on the same page. That does not take away your ability to negotiate for yourself. It makes no sense to get yourself in that situation. While it is difficult to say, maybe you do not need to accept that job. If you have to have that particular job so much...then you need to abide by your working contract. You can't have it both ways. Personal integrity is not always the easy way to go but it will always be a better bedfellow than regret.

08-16-2011, 10:31 AM	#59
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,553 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I truly think you're missing my overall, uber-point here: If you sign a contract knowing full well that you're going to breach it at some point... fine and dandy. But you forfeit the right to bitch about it if/when you get caught in that breach. So while my apparent breaching of various TOS's might seem to be contradictory (and may in fact be), that doesn't change the fact that I am completely culpable for that breach. And I wouldn't dream of telling my prosecutors that "you had no right to put that clause in there in the first place!"

08-16-2011, 10:42 AM	#60
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	Well, if it just boils down to "don't get caught and don't complain if caught"... I don't know of any teachers who did complain once caught. It was in the news in each case that I saw, but more as a journalist running down the story rather than the teacher ringing up the local news network. I brought up the point not as a "they should be allowed to complain" but rather "this should not be legal". I really don't care if people complain or not -- up to them. But that's a far cry from I NEVAR BREAK MY WORD LEST I LOSE HONOR AND DISEMBOWEL MYSELF. Which is what some of this thread sounded like. (Not all from you, I might add.)

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