11-26-2018, 01:00 AM | #76 | |||
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11-26-2018, 05:30 AM | #77 | ||
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11-26-2018, 10:27 AM | #78 | ||
o saeclum infacetum
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In regard to fictionalization I'm willing to go along with a speculative and/or expanded narrative so long as the known facts aren't altered. In a case like this, of course, it's wide open. But there also seems to be some reaction that Atwood went too far, e.g., Simon's entire involvement and interior monologue and also Jeremiah and Jamie as key elements in the resolution. This goes far beyond the specific whys for Grace. I have no issue with using a known case as a jumping off point, but I think this was too far along the fiction spectrum to justify using real personages. O/T Can't resist commenting on Alice Crimmins; was her pushing for a second trial a sign of innocence or hubris? Quote:
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11-26-2018, 10:47 AM | #79 |
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More and more, I'm thinking that the use of Grace Marks, a real person, was a snare for both the reader and Atwood. It constrained Atwood in a way that a purely fictional retelling wouldn't have and the reader gets caught up in the "real" events at the expense of the story.
It's been so long since I've read The Woman in White, but I wonder to what extent Alias Grace can be considered a sort of homage, but the flip side: a lower class woman struggling against the repressions of the times. Grace had far fewer alternatives than Laura! And to what extent are Mary and Anne doppelgangers? Once I started thinking along those lines, I thought Atwood would have been far better served by an entirely fictional account, one that would have let her say exactly what she wanted, instead of having to force her narrative to fit the known facts. In any case, I think our particular line of discussion while entertaining illuminating, has gotten us very far from consideration of Alias Grace as just a story and as a representation of the Victorian novel. We've been led astray. But another unanswerable issue is to what extent Atwood may have intended it? |
11-26-2018, 01:08 PM | #80 | |
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Did she have any option to report a possible murder plan? As she says, who would have believed her? Wouldn't she just have been dismissed as a troublemaker and fantasist? Was she supposed to run off without any way to live? She'd seen what happened to Mary and Nancy, both used by men, both subject to a man's whim. Here's where Dr. Jordan provides a counterpoint--when his landlady suggested murder, he didn't report it to anyone either, but he DID have the option of extricating himself from the situation, and did so by running away. His departure didn't require any hardship--he did it easily and without retribution, unless you want to see his later wartime injury as divine karma. |
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11-26-2018, 01:38 PM | #81 | |||
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(My view: Simpson did it, Anthony did it, Borden probably did it.) Quote:
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11-26-2018, 11:42 PM | #82 | |
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I was inclined to think of Rachel Humphrey (the Dr Jordan's landlady) as the more interesting counterpoint. Rachel seemed more trapped than Grace had been. As a respectable married woman she had nowhere to turn when her drunkard husband walked out. And when he seems about to show up again, is it any wonder that she should strive to find a way to avoid starving next time her husband does the same thing? |
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11-27-2018, 12:29 AM | #83 | |
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Margaret Atwood is not exactly a newcomer to the art, and her work seems very deliberate. So while specific reactions are perhaps too variable for an author to reliably intend with any precision, I would say that our mixed reaction would have been expected, and I doubt if she would be surprised by anything much we've expressed on this thread. |
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11-27-2018, 11:21 AM | #84 | ||
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Those two women were Grace's influences, along with her mother, of course, who was at the mercy of her abusive husband, a man she married because she was pregnant; she had, I believe, 13 pregnancies before she died. And he was bitter about all the mouths to feed, as though he had no part in their creation. Which of those futures looks most appealing and is not a trap? Quote:
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11-27-2018, 12:04 PM | #85 | |||
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I dunno. Historical faction is popular and harmless and look at the Tudor industry! I suppose it boils down to both how recent the events were and how much is known about it and Grace Marks is in a nebulous territory in that regard for me. Quote:
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And Nancy'd already had an illegitimate child; she seemed someone to me who managed outside the mores. The nineteenth century is replete with notorious women who thrived despite flagrant immorality, which is not to say that most weren't crushed when they erred. I could see Nancy as always landing on her feet somehow. I think this is one reason why Grace resented her; in Grace's mind she was no better than Mary, probably worse, but Mary had ended up dead and Nancy so far was thriving. In addition to Grace's own issues with Nancy, did she see herself as a force of vengeance? Because Grace seemed entirely in step with Victorian morality. |
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11-27-2018, 04:51 PM | #86 |
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I don’t know. I didn’t worry about Dr Jordan being a construct. I was just irritated at the amount of attention he was getting when I was more interested in Grace. She was an enigma, and therefore intrigued me.
I think I read the book as a story and didn’t bother so much about the boundaries between fact and fiction. I was prepared to accept that the story about Mary was true, that she existed in Grace’s world I mean, as opposed to being part of Atwood’s fiction. Her fate was sadly such a common one back then, that it was all too possible. Grace was clearly personable, intelligent and had many useful skills in order to become a trusted servant in the Governor’s home. So I was prepared to believe her to be innocent of the murders but afraid of McDermott and so an accessory after the fact. She managed to use her wits to keep him from raping her. In some odd way she reminded me of Elizabeth Tudor managing to survive by her wits in a similarly perilous situation when one mistake would have given Queen Mary the excuse to execute her. Quite different circumstances of course, but each a woman surviving despite the odds. |
11-27-2018, 04:54 PM | #87 | ||||||
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I do think that if she killed Nancy, Grace could have seen herself as avenging Mary. Quote:
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11-27-2018, 05:15 PM | #88 |
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Nancy’s previous child was mentioned in the discussion between Simon and Grace’s lawyer.
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11-27-2018, 05:42 PM | #89 | ||||
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11-27-2018, 06:55 PM | #90 |
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But it's not news. It's not a reason for this story. That's why I was comparing Grace's situation to what she might have expected (what her mother endured, what Mary endured, what Rachel endured) against what Atwood presents in this book. Good job, good prospects, able to stand up for herself against men like McDermott, so according to the possibilities of the times, life was pretty good for Grace at the time of the murders.
It feels to me that Atwood has highlighted this aspect of Grace's situation, deliberately making sure we understand that if Grace was involved in the murder it was not because she had been driven to it by extreme (for the times) circumstances. |
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