Will books Survive eBooks? - Page 2

CazMar · 05-21-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotallyEpic

I think within a hundred years, paper books will be a rare sight.

It has happened before:

Stone Carvings >> Wood Carvings >> Parchment/Vellum >> Paper Books.

The previous technology superceded by the next.

Yes - you don't see too many hand-written scrolls around these days! It might take about 20 years but for common use they will become less and less popular. But because p-books are so long-lasting those currently in homes and libraries will endure for a lot longer than that. I still have books at home well over 100 years old.
What does need to happen is some care and attention paid to properly digitising some of the old books, especially those put out by Google. Perhaps we should all try to do at least one every year and post it on this site - and full marks to our dedicated band of book proof-readers who prepare books and share them!

crich70 · 05-21-2011, 09:53 PM

That is in fact how Gutenberg got to have so many books available as text and HTML files. Volunteers scanned or typed them into computer files one at a time. Which makes it easier for the rest of us since they can then be used to create the books that are available at sites like MR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazMar

Yes - you don't see too many hand-written scrolls around these days! It might take about 20 years but for common use they will become less and less popular. But because p-books are so long-lasting those currently in homes and libraries will endure for a lot longer than that. I still have books at home well over 100 years old.
What does need to happen is some care and attention paid to properly digitising some of the old books, especially those put out by Google. Perhaps we should all try to do at least one every year and post it on this site - and full marks to our dedicated band of book proof-readers who prepare books and share them!

odiakkoh · 05-21-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazMar

Yes - you don't see too many hand-written scrolls around these days! It might take about 20 years but for common use they will become less and less popular. But because p-books are so long-lasting those currently in homes and libraries will endure for a lot longer than that. I still have books at home well over 100 years old.
What does need to happen is some care and attention paid to properly digitising some of the old books, especially those put out by Google. Perhaps we should all try to do at least one every year and post it on this site - and full marks to our dedicated band of book proof-readers who prepare books and share them!

I think it'll take more than 20. I mean dvds have been around for around 15+ years now and vhs tapes are still being sold at some places. VCRs are still being made. VHS tapes were only around for 20+ years before that. Books have been around for how long? I don't see pbooks dying out anytime soon.

crich70 · 05-21-2011, 11:28 PM

I don't think it's just how long they have been around that will have an impact either. There is also the economics of the situation. I mean newspapers are now digital but they are also still printed as well. Someone has to load the paper into the presses and someone bundles them up to be shipped out and other jobs at newspaper publishers and the same goes for books. Even if they print less books they can't just let all those workers go all at once or they'll have economic problems. After all if the people who do job X are no longer needed for that job where will they go?
The economy doesn't need more people to be unemployed in massive numbers. Such would have to be phased out in stages I would think. And it's not just the book publishers. It's also the paper makers and the ink suppliers and the truck drivers who drop off books at the stores (or newspapers at newsstands). Going totally ebook in one fell swoop would probably cause a lot of instability in the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odiakkoh

I think it'll take more than 20. I mean dvds have been around for around 15+ years now and vhs tapes are still being sold at some places. VCRs are still being made. VHS tapes were only around for 20+ years before that. Books have been around for how long? I don't see pbooks dying out anytime soon.

chrisanthropic · 05-22-2011, 12:05 AM

I think paper books will last for quite some time but we'll likely see the end of the $8 throw away paperback. My wife and I have talked about it and we see paper books becoming more of a luxury and collectibles. I don't plan on buying any more paperbacks that's for sure.

DMB · 05-22-2011, 02:19 AM

I just spent £15.99 on buying a non-fiction book that I really wanted to read. Fortunately for me, I was able to buy it in eformat. The hardback version would have been slightly cheaper because of tax. If it had been available only in dtformat, I wouldn't have bought it.

I find ebooks so much more convenient to read in so many ways that I have stopped buying dtbooks. I still own and like some dtbooks, despite having given away some thousands since I got my Kindle. However, I realise that if I have the same book in both formats, I am much more likely to read the e-version. The portability and instant access are very important. And since I travel a lot, I am used to being somewhere where I don't have access to the book I fancy reading at this moment.

J. Strnad · 05-22-2011, 01:10 PM

I agree that paperbacks will be the first casualty. I also like (as in "think it's a real possibility") that paper books will become a kind of status symbol or luxury item.

But paper books in general will be around for a long time. I doubt that anyone alive to read these words today will see paper books disappear in their lifetime.

CommonReader · 05-22-2011, 01:43 PM

CDs and MP3s haven't even managed to kill the good old analogue record, despite their obvious advantages. Instead we are seeing a rebirth of the records. Paper books are going to stay with us for a very long time.

bhartman36 · 05-22-2011, 02:06 PM

I don't think history is in the paper book's favor. What's more, I don't think the economics favor paper books, either.

Ebooks are already outselling paper books, and it's only been a few years. Paper books are also more expensive to produce, and more expensive to reproduce. I'm just not seeing a usage scenario where e-books are less profitable for publishers than paper, in the long run.

I don't think all production of paper books will stop anytime soon (if ever) but I would be astounded if paper books were regularly produced 20 years from now. Maybe even 15 years from now.

Phogg · 05-22-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotallyEpic

Radio is only there because you can't watch video when your driving.

No. There is a lot of work people do where one can listen to radio while working. Construction and some types of cooking jobs, much of small office work.

Radio may move to primarily a facet of broadband internet however.

Landlines days are numbered and cellular broadband will probably replace it entirely within ten years (In the US). AT&T saw the writing on the wall a few years ago and petitioned the federal government to be allowed to wind down its wired operation outright. Don't know who would care to take over in the central US where tornados, blizards, and wildfires take such a toll on operation costs.

crich70 · 05-22-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I don't think history is in the paper book's favor. What's more, I don't think the economics favor paper books, either.

Ebooks are already outselling paper books, and it's only been a few years. Paper books are also more expensive to produce, and more expensive to reproduce. I'm just not seeing a usage scenario where e-books are less profitable for publishers than paper, in the long run.

I don't think all production of paper books will stop anytime soon (if ever) but I would be astounded if paper books were regularly produced 20 years from now. Maybe even 15 years from now.

And while records are still around you don't see them out in a lot of stores anymore. Mostly stores that cater to those who search for them I think. I mean I can recall when I was a teenager stores like Wal-Mart had records and cassette tapes in their music section. Now it's pretty much just CD's that you find there. And how many companies still make turntables? Cassette players are part of portable CD players, but VHS players are now part of DVD recorders as well. When was the last time you saw a pure VHS player or recorder in a store? They're being transitioned out in favor of the new media. Even DVD players are giving way to the Blue-Ray player so one day the basic DVD player will probably be gone too. I can imagine a time based on that track record when books will transition from pbooks to ebooks. With how many there are out there it may take a while but Gutenberg printed 200 Bibles in 1450 and now only 48 still exist as far as we know. So over the last 561 years 152 copies of his 1st book (more than 3/4ths) have been lost. Considering how simply most pbooks are made compared to the binding of the Gutenberg Bible and how little regard most people have for them (due to how common pbooks are) I could see them becoming rare eventually.

Prestidigitweeze · 05-22-2011, 06:37 PM

Just returned from an event at Tribes Gallery down the block, where two poets were reading from their new books, both of which are published in paper form.

The kinds of books these happened to be speak to the future of books, which some have rightly compared to vinyl. The vinyl record, of course, is now a niche object as the book is soon to become: Rarefied but not necessarily rare or exorbitant.

Still, the limited-run collector's item will probably always be with us, as my first example suggests.

The first of the two books contained nothing but etchings. It was by a New York poet who has collaborated with an artist in Ireland to create a book in which the poems as well as the artwork are all etched by hand (the artwork by the artist and the poetry by the writer). The book will be sold primarily to wealthy collectors.

The other book was by a poet named Susan Scutti. She began her career by performing spoken word at the Nuyorican Poetry Cafe down the block, but she makes her living as a proofreader and copy editor by day. She simply wanted to do a collection of her best poems on the printed page she's come to love, since her usual venue has involved performing and recording.

Scutti seemed gracious as well as grateful for her book's appearance. She thanked everyone she possibly could for their part in bringing it to the paper stage: Those in the audience, those who were elsewhere and those no longer with us.

Said collection, The Commute, is published in paper form by a small press and will be done in small runs, as needed.

The printed novel might well be headed for niches like these (though I can't see a five-hundred-page-long etching in fiction's future).

§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§

Before that, I'd been involved in a reading with a group of writer friends. It was intended to celebrate an anthology of pieces paired with artwork. All of these were once published in limited paper form, as a "portfolio" on a letter press.

The occasion was their release on CD and also on a dedicated web site: Niche, niche, niche.

When I sat down before the reading, I found myself conversing with a man who had brought a camera mounted on a tripod. He explained that he documents readings constantly and would be recording the whole event. Eventually, he said, he'll add the edited version to his series of poetry and fiction documentaries on DVD, volumes of which include many famous writers as well as the occasional odd duck (me).

I'd never really spoken to the man before, but once he'd shown me the finished product, I realized I'd encountered his work in video stores throughout the country.

It's amazing how much work still finds expression in backroom whispers: in lofts, galleries, fugitive manses, performance spaces, indie stores with shifting half-defined merchandise. "This couplet comes with a platinum squirt gun by Leon Golub."

-walsh- · 05-23-2011, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonReader

CDs and MP3s haven't even managed to kill the good old analogue record, despite their obvious advantages. Instead we are seeing a rebirth of the records. Paper books are going to stay with us for a very long time.

exactly the same with photography, a lot of people still shoot film, myself included.

Aladyleyna · 05-23-2011, 03:21 AM

I admit that most, if not all of my reading are done mainly through ebooks now. Yet, for some reason, I think for some of us there is still some sort of comfort in owning a paperback novel. I still feel a sense of content in going to paperback bookstores or libraries, and pride in looking at my own paperback book collection. That's why even though I use ebooks now, I still don't have the heart to get rid of my paperback novels due to nostalgia.

That, and in some cases, the ebook cannot be found in my country, so the paperback version is always a lifesaver.

Algiedi · 05-23-2011, 03:48 AM

I'm surprised that this "paper vs ebooks" debate is still going on, since I don't think that they necessarily compete with eachother, or at least that they will keep doing so for very long.

Right now ebooks are just books that are not on paper. Black and white text, and that's pretty much it. But already we got authors and publishers getting ideas about the really cool stuff they could do with the next generation of ebook readers (or well, even the current one if you count the iPad). Add animations, add a soundtrack, add interactivity - some even start thinking about new ways to think about the very concept of narration.

I truly believe that ebooks will quickly stray from their current mimicking of paper books into a new form, a new media that will be impossible to compare to good ol' books, just like you can't compare a book and a video game, or a book and a movie.

But could that just as easily mean that paper books will be abandonned because of their lack of multimedia functions? That could be, if one would only buy a book for its content - but we also buy an object, which can have its own proper qualities. I suspect that focusing on those object-qualities (high quality paper, beautiful illustrations and binding, etc.) will be the next step in paper book evolution, and will allow them to exist and persist.

05-22-2011, 06:37 PM	#27
Prestidigitweeze Fledgling Demagogue Posts: 2,384 Karma: 31132263 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: White Plains Device: Clara HD; Oasis 2; Aura HD; iPad Air; PRS-350; Galaxy S7.	Just returned from an event at Tribes Gallery down the block, where two poets were reading from their new books, both of which are published in paper form. The kinds of books these happened to be speak to the future of books, which some have rightly compared to vinyl. The vinyl record, of course, is now a niche object as the book is soon to become: Rarefied but not necessarily rare or exorbitant. Still, the limited-run collector's item will probably always be with us, as my first example suggests. The first of the two books contained nothing but etchings. It was by a New York poet who has collaborated with an artist in Ireland to create a book in which the poems as well as the artwork are all etched by hand (the artwork by the artist and the poetry by the writer). The book will be sold primarily to wealthy collectors. The other book was by a poet named Susan Scutti. She began her career by performing spoken word at the Nuyorican Poetry Cafe down the block, but she makes her living as a proofreader and copy editor by day. She simply wanted to do a collection of her best poems on the printed page she's come to love, since her usual venue has involved performing and recording. Scutti seemed gracious as well as grateful for her book's appearance. She thanked everyone she possibly could for their part in bringing it to the paper stage: Those in the audience, those who were elsewhere and those no longer with us. Said collection, The Commute, is published in paper form by a small press and will be done in small runs, as needed. The printed novel might well be headed for niches like these (though I can't see a five-hundred-page-long etching in fiction's future). §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ Before that, I'd been involved in a reading with a group of writer friends. It was intended to celebrate an anthology of pieces paired with artwork. All of these were once published in limited paper form, as a "portfolio" on a letter press. The occasion was their release on CD and also on a dedicated web site: Niche, niche, niche. When I sat down before the reading, I found myself conversing with a man who had brought a camera mounted on a tripod. He explained that he documents readings constantly and would be recording the whole event. Eventually, he said, he'll add the edited version to his series of poetry and fiction documentaries on DVD, volumes of which include many famous writers as well as the occasional odd duck (me). I'd never really spoken to the man before, but once he'd shown me the finished product, I realized I'd encountered his work in video stores throughout the country. It's amazing how much work still finds expression in backroom whispers: in lofts, galleries, fugitive manses, performance spaces, indie stores with shifting half-defined merchandise. "This couplet comes with a platinum squirt gun by Leon Golub." Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 05-23-2011 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Fond* for found.*

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05-22-2011, 12:05 AM	#20
chrisanthropic Fiend Posts: 148 Karma: 559930 Join Date: Apr 2011 Device: none	I think paper books will last for quite some time but we'll likely see the end of the $8 throw away paperback. My wife and I have talked about it and we see paper books becoming more of a luxury and collectibles. I don't plan on buying any more paperbacks that's for sure.

05-22-2011, 02:19 AM	#21
DMB Old Git Posts: 958 Karma: 1840790 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Switzerland (mostly) Device: Two kindle PWs wifi, kindle fire, iPad3 wifi	I just spent £15.99 on buying a non-fiction book that I really wanted to read. Fortunately for me, I was able to buy it in eformat. The hardback version would have been slightly cheaper because of tax. If it had been available only in dtformat, I wouldn't have bought it. I find ebooks so much more convenient to read in so many ways that I have stopped buying dtbooks. I still own and like some dtbooks, despite having given away some thousands since I got my Kindle. However, I realise that if I have the same book in both formats, I am much more likely to read the e-version. The portability and instant access are very important. And since I travel a lot, I am used to being somewhere where I don't have access to the book I fancy reading at this moment.

05-22-2011, 01:10 PM	#22
J. Strnad Guru Posts: 915 Karma: 3537194 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo, Kindle 3, Paperwhite	I agree that paperbacks will be the first casualty. I also like (as in "think it's a real possibility") that paper books will become a kind of status symbol or luxury item. But paper books in general will be around for a long time. I doubt that anyone alive to read these words today will see paper books disappear in their lifetime.

05-22-2011, 01:43 PM	#23
CommonReader Fanatic Posts: 528 Karma: 2530000 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Sony PRS-T3, PRS-650, Vaio Tap 11, iPad Mini	CDs and MP3s haven't even managed to kill the good old analogue record, despite their obvious advantages. Instead we are seeing a rebirth of the records. Paper books are going to stay with us for a very long time.

05-22-2011, 02:06 PM	#24
bhartman36 Wizard Posts: 1,316 Karma: 1515835 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 3 Wi-Fi, Craig CMP738a Android Tablet	I don't think history is in the paper book's favor. What's more, I don't think the economics favor paper books, either. Ebooks are already outselling paper books, and it's only been a few years. Paper books are also more expensive to produce, and more expensive to reproduce. I'm just not seeing a usage scenario where e-books are less profitable for publishers than paper, in the long run. I don't think all production of paper books will stop anytime soon (if ever) but I would be astounded if paper books were regularly produced 20 years from now. Maybe even 15 years from now.

05-23-2011, 03:21 AM	#29
Aladyleyna Zealot Posts: 138 Karma: 24624 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Singapore Device: iPad 1	I admit that most, if not all of my reading are done mainly through ebooks now. Yet, for some reason, I think for some of us there is still some sort of comfort in owning a paperback novel. I still feel a sense of content in going to paperback bookstores or libraries, and pride in looking at my own paperback book collection. That's why even though I use ebooks now, I still don't have the heart to get rid of my paperback novels due to nostalgia. That, and in some cases, the ebook cannot be found in my country, so the paperback version is always a lifesaver.

05-23-2011, 03:48 AM	#30
Algiedi Overenthusiastic Noob Posts: 69 Karma: 896 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: France Device: Kindle 3	I'm surprised that this "paper vs ebooks" debate is still going on, since I don't think that they necessarily compete with eachother, or at least that they will keep doing so for very long. Right now ebooks are just books that are not on paper. Black and white text, and that's pretty much it. But already we got authors and publishers getting ideas about the really cool stuff they could do with the next generation of ebook readers (or well, even the current one if you count the iPad). Add animations, add a soundtrack, add interactivity - some even start thinking about new ways to think about the very concept of narration. I truly believe that ebooks will quickly stray from their current mimicking of paper books into a new form, a new media that will be impossible to compare to good ol' books, just like you can't compare a book and a video game, or a book and a movie. But could that just as easily mean that paper books will be abandonned because of their lack of multimedia functions? That could be, if one would only buy a book for its content - but we also buy an object, which can have its own proper qualities. I suspect that focusing on those object-qualities (high quality paper, beautiful illustrations and binding, etc.) will be the next step in paper book evolution, and will allow them to exist and persist.

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