Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > ePub

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-14-2019, 10:23 AM   #1
Patrick V
Junior Member
Patrick V began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 1
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Device: Kobo Aura H2O
(foot)note as popup

Hi,

I'd like to know if someone has ever succeeded in creating ebooks with popups. I would like to replace footnotes with popup's. Or maybe, you know an ebook with popup's.
The epub should be readable on Kobo Aura.

Thanks,

Patrick
Patrick V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 11:06 AM   #2
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 53,622
Karma: 49384553
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick V View Post
Hi,

I'd like to know if someone has ever succeeded in creating ebooks with popups. I would like to replace footnotes with popup's. Or maybe, you know an ebook with popup's.
The epub should be readable on Kobo Aura.

Thanks,

Patrick
In order to get popup footnotes, you need to convert your ePub to kepub.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2019, 09:44 PM   #3
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,862
Karma: 76683937
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, and NookColor. 2 Droid, 1 Win8 ePUB rdrs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick V View Post
Hi,

I'd like to know if someone has ever succeeded in creating ebooks with popups. I would like to replace footnotes with popup's. Or maybe, you know an ebook with popup's.
The epub should be readable on Kobo Aura.

Thanks,

Patrick
In short, Patrick--it's the devices, not the coding, by and large. For example, the iBooks reader and Kobos have popup footnotes; many others do not. It's the device or software doing the rendering, rather than magic in the coding.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 01:48 AM   #4
doubleshuffle
Flying Wheels
doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
doubleshuffle's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,872
Karma: 122694447
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet of the Pudding Brains
Device: Aura HD (R.I.P. After six years the USB socket died.) tolino shine 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
In short, Patrick--it's the devices, not the coding, by and large. For example, the iBooks reader and Kobos have popup footnotes; many others do not. It's the device or software doing the rendering, rather than magic in the coding.

Hitch
But wasn't there a certain way footnotes have to be formatted to really make them pop up on the devices that can make them pop up?

I know I read posts about this on the forums here, quite a while back. If one does a search they might pop up.

*grabs coat and pops out*
doubleshuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 01:54 AM   #5
doubleshuffle
Flying Wheels
doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
doubleshuffle's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,872
Karma: 122694447
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet of the Pudding Brains
Device: Aura HD (R.I.P. After six years the USB socket died.) tolino shine 3
Found something. I think this is the thread I remembered:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=271796
doubleshuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 11:53 AM   #6
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,862
Karma: 76683937
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, and NookColor. 2 Droid, 1 Win8 ePUB rdrs
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleshuffle View Post
Found something. I think this is the thread I remembered:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=271796
I think you're thinking about whether or not you need javascript or JSON to make them work, but by and large, you don't. You just have to make them as footnotes, for MOST devices and they'll either work--or they won't.

If you try to get all cute with js or JSON, you'll end up with books that more people cannot read than can. IMHO.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 12:03 PM   #7
doubleshuffle
Flying Wheels
doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.doubleshuffle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
doubleshuffle's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,872
Karma: 122694447
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet of the Pudding Brains
Device: Aura HD (R.I.P. After six years the USB socket died.) tolino shine 3
I've never done anything fancy with notes. I just remembered that thread, and Doitsu posted a test epub there with all kinds of different formattings, but I don't think it involved any cute stuff.

But I'm not going to get into this; I just dug up that thread because I happened to remember it's there. Perhaps it'll help Patrick V.
doubleshuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2019, 01:50 PM   #8
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 53,622
Karma: 49384553
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
In short, Patrick--it's the devices, not the coding, by and large. For example, the iBooks reader and Kobos have popup footnotes; many others do not. It's the device or software doing the rendering, rather than magic in the coding.

Hitch
Kobo's only do popup footnotes when reading kepub, not ePub.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 08:58 AM   #9
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,862
Karma: 76683937
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, and NookColor. 2 Droid, 1 Win8 ePUB rdrs
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Kobo's only do popup footnotes when reading kepub, not ePub.
Which, I think, makes my point even further--the files are effectively identical, an "ePUB" and a "kepub;" the latter has gone through Kobo's (utterly unnecessary) process and then the popup footnotes work, but AFAIK, the coding therefor is identical.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 11:19 AM   #10
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 53,622
Karma: 49384553
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Which, I think, makes my point even further--the files are effectively identical, an "ePUB" and a "kepub;" the latter has gone through Kobo's (utterly unnecessary) process and then the popup footnotes work, but AFAIK, the coding therefor is identical.

Hitch
I agree 100%.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 12:03 PM   #11
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,307
Karma: 27305947
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura One, Aura H2O, Aura HD, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Which, I think, makes my point even further--the files are effectively identical, an "ePUB" and a "kepub;" the latter has gone through Kobo's (utterly unnecessary) process and then the popup footnotes work, but AFAIK, the coding therefor is identical.
The code may be identical but the renderer is different. Kobo uses two renderers, Adobe's RMSDK which allow for reading Adobe ADEPT DRMed epubs but which is pretty limited when it comes to epub3 and one based on the ACCESS Netfront Bookreader which does a pretty decent job of handling epub3 and uses Kobo's proprietary DRM. Back when Kobo was purchased by Rakuten and Kobo was moving into the Japanese market, a renderer that would handle Japanese typography with all it's quirks was a necessity.

As for whether the mass of spans tossed into a kepub are necessary? They do help with text selection/highlighting so an arguable point. The other changes such as identifying the cover image and adding the SVG property are pretty much just complying with the epub3 specification.
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 11:45 AM   #12
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,862
Karma: 76683937
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, and NookColor. 2 Droid, 1 Win8 ePUB rdrs
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
The code may be identical but the renderer is different. Kobo uses two renderers, Adobe's RMSDK which allow for reading Adobe ADEPT DRMed epubs but which is pretty limited when it comes to epub3 and one based on the ACCESS Netfront Bookreader which does a pretty decent job of handling epub3 and uses Kobo's proprietary DRM. Back when Kobo was purchased by Rakuten and Kobo was moving into the Japanese market, a renderer that would handle Japanese typography with all it's quirks was a necessity.

As for whether the mass of spans tossed into a kepub are necessary? They do help with text selection/highlighting so an arguable point. The other changes such as identifying the cover image and adding the SVG property are pretty much just complying with the epub3 specification.
David:

Yes, which I think was my point. Identical code, different renderers, which is why pop-up footnotes in a K10 work--but not in a PPW of the first few generations. {shrug}.

Yes, I know the rationale for the KePUB. I just...don't like it. I realize that they had a unique circumstance.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 01:51 PM   #13
jackie_w
Grand Sorcerer
jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,113
Karma: 11967540
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Device: PRS-350, Kobo: Aura6", H2O, GloHD, KA1, ClaraHD, Forma
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
As for whether the mass of spans tossed into a kepub are necessary? They do help with text selection/highlighting so an arguable point.
I don't think the thousands of koboSpans just "help" with text selection/highlighting, I think they're essential for it to work at all. Similarly I don't think remembering your book's progress is possible without them.

On the negative side, I do believe those same koboSpans are responsible (at least in part) for kepub full justified text alignment not looking as good as standard epub as regards smooth word and letter spacing.
jackie_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 03:53 PM   #14
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,307
Karma: 27305947
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura One, Aura H2O, Aura HD, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
I don't think the thousands of koboSpans just "help" with text selection/highlighting, I think they're essential for it to work at all. Similarly I don't think remembering your book's progress is possible without them.
If you simply rename an ebub to .kepub.epub, it will use the ACCESS renderer and you can highlight, etc. Book progress will be remembered depending on other glitches in Kobo's coding though those seem to have affected epubs recently. With the spans in place, it does make it easier to select text and more reliable when remembering the location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
On the negative side, I do believe those same koboSpans are responsible (at least in part) for kepub full justified text alignment not looking as good as standard epub as regards smooth word and letter spacing.
That's more a difference between the two renderers. RMSDK seems to be more consistent in it's handling of justification especially when you have ligatures enabled. If you send a kepubified epub as an epub or send an epub simply renamed to .kepub.epub, you will notice the differences. This happens with either a kepubified epub or a non-DRMed kepub downloaded to your computer using the Kobo desktop app or copied from your ereader.
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 05:43 PM   #15
jackie_w
Grand Sorcerer
jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackie_w ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,113
Karma: 11967540
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Device: PRS-350, Kobo: Aura6", H2O, GloHD, KA1, ClaraHD, Forma
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
If you simply rename an ebub to .kepub.epub, it will use the ACCESS renderer and you can highlight, etc. Book progress will be remembered ...
The bold bits are not my experience. I don't want to argue, we'll have to agree to differ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
That's more a difference between the two renderers. RMSDK seems to be more consistent in it's handling of justification especially when you have ligatures enabled. If you send a kepubified epub as an epub or send an epub simply renamed to .kepub.epub, you will notice the differences. This happens with either a kepubified epub or a non-DRMed kepub downloaded to your computer using the Kobo desktop app or copied from your ereader.
Here is probably not the place to discuss it but all I can say is that extensive experiments with the koboSpan-adding algorithm (and a few other bizarre tweaks) tells me that full justified kepubs with ligatures can be made to look much smoother than Kobo's default algorithm allows. Possibly still not quite as good as epubs in Adobe, but perfectly acceptable (to me, that is).
jackie_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should I return the Onyx Note Pro? Did I make a mistake passing up the Note? qwert Onyx Boox 4 06-19-2019 07:34 AM
Onyx Boox Note - faster switching to note and vice versa T4ng10r Onyx Boox 4 08-08-2018 07:26 AM
Onyx Boox Note 10.3 - Note app - Import function Jmirko Onyx Boox 0 07-26-2018 04:15 AM
Foot Note Format yoss15 Sigil 30 03-14-2012 03:47 PM
EEE note EA-800 and Sony PRS-600 [Note-Taking] sunwillsetforyou Which one should I buy? 5 05-04-2011 01:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.