Discussion on Moderator impartiality

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Zelandi

Of course moderators are people, and doing a job without pay. That also means that there can be things they're not aware of, and sometimes a different perspective can be helpful. If I'm stepping on peoples toes without intending to, I hope I'm told so, whatever position I may have in a group. Doesn't neccessarily mean I will agree or change anything, but maybe it actually is something I don't want to stand for when I see it from a different point of view?

I don't see anyone saying the mods here are doing a bad job in any other aspect.. or doing a bad job when acting in the role of moderator. As I see it, this thread was about an incident (about moderators behaviour when being off-duty so to speak) and more or less a question if what happened that time has happened before, and that then it might be a problem. (I don't think it is, for the record. At least not in the way the OP wrote, or the way I worried when it first happened). But maybe I got it all wrong.



Oh, THAT I understood perfectly. But the name of a member is in black or green, you know, next to every post our usernames show up? That's a detail I didn't think about, so at first I didn't even realize that some posters were mods. I personally never interpreted any comment on that thread as a moderating post. But I were surprised to see that some people were moderators since I personally and in general expect a different tone from anyone in that position. Even when it's all about non-mod posts - kind of how I don't expect a police to spend his spare time as a shoplifter. (not completely perfect metafor, but I think you can see the gist of it if you use a bit of good will?)

In either case, I'm just saying that I can see what the OP is referring to. I'm not going to complain about it, it seems to just be the tone of this forum and good naturedly so. I didn't come here to change anything, especially not how it's run. It obviously works fine - but you might want to be aware that it can seem strange or intimidating to new members.

You people have a history here (I suppose anyway), and I figure it's likely that maybe you'd be more careful with how you write if, for example, it had been my post. (Since you don't know me at all). Inktelligent handeled it much differently than I would have, in a way which to me suggests that he/her is more comfortable with it all and gets the tone for what it is. As long as that's the case, I can't see any problem whatsoever. Which is the reason I'm not the one starting this thread, and I havn't reported any posts or tried in any other way to step in about the incident, it's just not in my place because I don't know enough.

I basically just wanted to say that the OP is not alone in the first impression. Especially after someone pointed out that he/she seems to be the only one to have interpreted the posts that way.

I have nothing more to add. Have a good day, and keep the good work.

I can assure you if you do make a gaffe or error in posting, one of the mods will fix it and let you know privately what you did.
Pretty much the only exceptions are oversized images or if you don't have your PMs on.
The second one usually occurs in the introduction forum.
And if you accidentally post a thread where it doesn't belong, a mod will gladly move it.

And before you ask, oh yes I have been moderated more than once.

[theducks]

In addition to the Greenies (board level), Individual forums also have Helpers.

For a forum level Mod List, look at the bottom of each Forum Main (top level) page (some of the names are no longer active)

[BetterRed]

People who's 'name' is shown in green are officially known as Editors , people who are listed in Forum Moderators lists are, believe it or not, officially known as Moderators

Moderator names are not distinguished by colour due to VBully board limitations.

Whilst I haven't looked at the thread/post that triggered this thread, I will make this general observation.

There seems to be a growing tendency to respond to genuine (albeit perhaps somewhat naïve) queries in a manner that I consider as belittling (borderline bullying), but not especially from Editors or Forum Moderators. Probably contagion from socmed sites such Twitter and Reditt. I've also seen the same drift elsewhere - quite often much worse Ψ²

Also wonder if its related in the lack of civility in which politics is currently conducted and presented, which in part is probably a backlash against political correctness. Referring to one's opponents as 'my friend', 'my colleague' etc is so @#$%^& disingenuous. But I digress ... no more to come.

Disclosure - I am a Moderator on the Calibre Forum

BR

[johnnyb]

I agree with OP... Some of the long time mods here behave like bullies. As far as I'm concerned I think they should stop posting their so-called "opinions" in all cases. They work for the board and aren't here for fun. Imagine Wal Mart staff in uniform walking up to you in Wal Mart and telling you that your xyz sucks and is ugly...

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

They work for the board and aren't here for fun.

Just to correct your misapprehension. Neither Editors nor Moderators are paid. They are indeed here for fun.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Neither Editors nor Moderators are paid.

You could even argue that we are negatively paid. When prizes are awarded or given away in some kind of contest, we are not allowed to participate

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I agree with OP... Some of the long time mods here behave like bullies. As far as I'm concerned I think they should stop posting their so-called "opinions" in all cases. They work for the board and aren't here for fun. Imagine Wal Mart staff in uniform walking up to you in Wal Mart and telling you that your xyz sucks and is ugly...

I have not particularly seen any bullying. An opinion on a product is never bullying.
If you put out any product, be it a book, video or even a microwave oven, not everyone is going to like it. If one cannot handle being told someone doesn't like their product, then they don't need to be making a product.
That was nothing more than a review on said product.

Bullying would be "oh you use product X then you are an idiot."

Oh yes, I have seen bullying. I have seen more than once someone said they didn't care for the product. Then the product owner starts calling the reviewer names or in one case wanted full names on all reviews. And note that person uses a pseudonym for her products.

Even had one try to bully me into removing a review.

Reviewing a product not bullying.
Name calling and veiled threats bullying.

[Cinisajoy]

Oh and to anyone that doesn't like the way this place is run, might I just say there is NO law in any country that says you have to visit this site.

I personally have left more than one forum because of attitudes of both posters and moderators.

[johnnyb]

Thanks for your input, I still agree with OP. Even if you do not want to call it "work" it still seems odd when some mods, being very frequent visitors or the site, jump on every thread and blurt out their opinions with mod labels attached to their names. Guess it's more like a bunch of Walmart staffers crashing every party in town telling everyone their sometimes rather untoward (and unreflected and unchanging) opinions...
Sometimes for me as a long time visitor and member, it's really hard to watch and I know for sure that this has developed over time and hasn't always been the case.

[Cinisajoy]

Hmmm.
Haven't seen many mods
Here
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=143018
Or here
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34441
Or here
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=259267
Or here
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27148
Or any other number of threads.

Very rarely here.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

Now if the moderators would like to post here, they will win every time they post.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=143018

Actually anyone that posts there wins. All are welcome.
Lightly disguised plea to get more people so we can reach 90,000 posts faster.

So now you said every thread. We must be at 2 different sites because I rarely see the mods.

[Krazykiwi]

I think the biggest misunderstanding about the whole situation is right in the first post. Privately owned and operated forums aren't democracies, they are benevolent dictatorships (a term common in open source software circles). We're on their turf, and as long as we understand that, then since we're here by choice, it's all good.

Instead of thinking of it as 'we're citizens of a country and the mods are the govt' as the op suggested, I like to think of a very different kind of community: The local pub.

We're the regulars, or sometimes tourists passing through. The mods are the bartenders and bouncers and the publican, and since it's their local too, they'll be here drinking (uhh, commenting) when they're off duty too. But if the publican says the dress-code is peacock feather fascinators or no entry, they're perfectly entitled to throw us out for wearing swan feathers instead or the forum insists you can only post in purple and orange alternating paragraphs. Of course those are stupid rules and pub or forum, if the rules are too unreasonable or ridiculous, people won't come back.

That's a line the forum owners (not govt, owners) have to walk, but they really don't owe us any explanation. But most people don't seem to find the rules here too onerous or unreasonable, I know I sure don't.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by Krazykiwi

I think the biggest misunderstanding about the whole situation is right in the first post. Privately owned and operated forums aren't democracies, they are benevolent dictatorships (a term common in open source software circles). We're on their turf, and as long as we understand that, then since we're here by choice, it's all good.

Instead of thinking of it as 'we're citizens of a country and the mods are the govt' as the op suggested, I like to think of a very different kind of community: The local pub.

We're the regulars, or sometimes tourists passing through. The mods are the bartenders and bouncers and the publican, and since it's their local too, they'll be here drinking (uhh, commenting) when they're off duty too. But if the publican says the dress-code is peacock feather fascinators or no entry, they're perfectly entitled to throw us out for wearing swan feathers instead or the forum insists you can only post in purple and orange alternating paragraphs. Of course those are stupid rules and pub or forum, if the rules are too unreasonable or ridiculous, people won't come back.

That's a line the forum owners (not govt, owners) have to walk, but they really don't owe us any explanation. But most people don't seem to find the rules here too onerous or unreasonable, I know I sure don't.

I like that comparison!
Golden rule of working in a pub: Only the most incapable of bartenders and bouncers drink during work hours.
But yes, you are right: One should not return to places where you have been pissed off by staff...

[Dazrin]

Edit: Nevermind.

[soulfuldog]

Originally Posted by Zelandi

I would probably not have posted there at all, if it wasn't because I felt that the video was getting more negativity than it deserved and already from start... Or maybe I would have, I don't know. I wrote my honest opinion in either way.
I do understand the critisism, but I feel uneasy with the way it was delivered and especially the sense - as I felt it - of ''ganging up''.

I agree with you on that last sentence. It all seems a bit strange, even the comments in this thread about self-promotion (common sense tells you these rules are for authors/publishers promoting books or other things for sale, not a information video that sells nothing?!). I just figured maybe there was some history with the OP that I wasn't aware of.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

I agree with you on that last sentence. It all seems a bit strange, even the comments in this thread about self-promotion (common sense tells you these rules are for authors/publishers promoting books or other things for sale, not a information video that sells nothing?!). I just figured maybe there was some history with the OP that I wasn't aware of.

Sometimes, videos have ads connected to them that makes the video maker money.
So if the video had been anywhere but youtube, it would have been self-promotion.

Pretty much if one posts a link that could make them money, it is self promotion.
This includes blogs.