Offering to help with UX Design

[viztastic]

Hi there,

I was about to embark on a journey to design my own modern looking/feeling eBook reader/management platform until I ran into Calibre. Calibre seems to have everything from a functionality point of view but the user experience feels dated.

Instead of duplicating effort, I'd love to offer the community to help freshen up the user experience on both the web reader and actual app front.

Is this something the project leads would be interested in? And if so what would next steps look like?

I have a fairly extensive Product Management/Design background and would love to help out!

Thanks,
Viz

[kovidgoyal]

Just search for previous threads with people offering to help, you will find detailed responses.

[viztastic]

I actually did but I couldn't seem to find any obvious results, see below for example: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fJu...hdgHb6-mj/view

Maybe it's worth pinning a thread with a guide on how to contribute if you don't have time to explain/welcome people to the process?

[davidfor]

If you want to be involved in calibre development, then the calibre web page has a "Get Involved" section. Which is https://calibre-ebook.com/get-involved. And the section of the forum you posted in is explicitly for discussing things related to the development.

But, I think Kovid was talking about your reference to the UI. There have been plenty of people popping up criticising the calibre UI and offering to "improve" it. All of those threads are in the forum to find. You can look at them and see what happened. Or you can make your suggestions. And if you can back it with code, then people can try it.

Personally, I don't know what is wrong with the interface. My experience with "modernized" or interface refreshes is that they tend not to be as good. Most have less information and make it harder for me to do what I want to do.

[viztastic]

Perhaps to someone who's grown with calibre (like yourselves) the interface is fine. But things have changed sine 2011 and to be honest as a first-time user it's insanely intimidating. I accept how it works, but I think it isn't friendly or welcoming by any modern standard. There's a reason why Netfilx, Facebook, Amazon, Google don't produce products that look like Calibre... it doesn't encourage adoption which in turn doesn't generate the revenues they are used to.

The comment about backing design with code is intriguing and probably explains why the interface hasn't evolved as much as the code. I am a product designer, not a coder (although I can actually write code, it's not a strength by any stretch).

I'd be very happy to collaborate with developers and propose designs, but if I am expected to be the one to code them, then that's not going to happen and I'm afraid you're limiting your access to talented product designers.

PS: I saw the getting involved page and frankly it's not at all welcoming to design oriented folk like myself. Is there something on that page that is relevant to me that I missed? Will pulling the codebase reveal some special instructions on how to help with the UI?


Sorry I am not at all trying to be antagonistic - just trying to share what the experience feels like to someone new to the community. So far alienating and quite jarring.

[BetterRed]

I did a search of the Calibre forum for "user interface design"; these four threads may be of interest:

Design concepts for Calibre

Interface layout

Time for a next level UI ?

Rethinking the user interface

I drive calibre via its customisable keyboard shortcuts, the book list context menu, and the Favorites plugin menu - see attached screenshot.

BR

[viztastic]

Hey @BetterRed - I really appreciate you sharing those links.

It does seem that the creator(s) of Callibre are anxious about upsetting their legacy/power-users.

I'm not looking to rock the boat by any stretch. If there's interest in creating a fresh feel for the "next generation" of users I'd be very happy to commit 40-80 hours collaborating with developers to test a few ideas and see where it could go. I am also especially interested in the web side of things more so than the Calibre app itself (although I think both could benefit).

Again, I come in peace, just speaking honestly as a newcomer to the community.

PS: I also noticed people appreciating designers not trashing the existing look and feel. I fully acknowledge the thought/effort that's gone into the existing look. Not at all pretending that it was a waste of effort and it's obviously built you 10+ years worth of users.

PPS: If anyone would like to partner with me on this, feel free to email me on findcjadam at gmail.com

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by viztastic

There's a reason why Netfilx, Facebook, Amazon, Google don't produce products that look like Calibre... it doesn't encourage adoption which in turn doesn't generate the revenues they are used to.

Generating revenue is indeed the raison d'être for Netflix et al, but not for Calibre. The focus is on function, and that focus has been so successful that Calibre has become the reference standard for personal library management apps. Does everything have to be in pictures to avoid being "alienating and jarring"?

[viztastic]

Generating revenue is indeed the raison d'être for Netflix et al, but not for Calibre.

I was hoping I didn't have to state the obvious - Revenue is simply a proxy for effectiveness. I fully appreciate this is an open-source initiative, but your goal is to maintain the success.... Google trends (as a very very loose proxy) seems to tell its own story: https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...alibre%20ebook

Does everything have to be in pictures to avoid being "alienating and jarring"?.

No, not pictures - that seems too big of an ask, just words that illustrate a process for how creatives can collaborate with engineers would be great. But you seem to feel really content with your style of welcoming people into your ways. Good for you buddy.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by viztastic

I Revenue is simply a proxy for effectiveness. I fully appreciate this is an open-source initiative, but your goal is to maintain the success..

I am not involved in the Calibre project at all except as a very satisfied user and a very occasional donor. But I do know that in the case of Calibre revenue is NOT a valid proxy for effectiveness, and personally find your suggestion that is to be risible. Calibre is very effective as is, and is maintaining its success. The dearth of credible alternatives is testimony to the effectiveness and success of Calibre.

[viztastic]

Success by what measure if you don't mind me asking? Google trends? Github activity? Your personal satisfaction rating? Or just the fact that no credible alternative exists?

Anyway, you seem really happy with yourself. Happy to keep you in that state Uncle Rob.

-----

I'd like to get back to the topic and simply look for a developer who's interested in exploring creative options that we could propose to the community either as an extension to Calibre or even as an alternative.

[Terisa de morgan]

I think it's going to be difficult you find the approach it looks like you're looking for. Main part of the users who are going to answer you are long-term calibre users who are mainly happy with the interface. And, talking about developers, I think usually developers are long-term users involved in calibre itself or plugins.

[viztastic]

Yeah I don't disagree Terisa. I guess I'm really looking for one person amongst the hundreds of developers who are involved with Calibre. So I hold out hope

Thanks for the thoughtful post though.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by viztastic

Yeah I don't disagree Terisa. I guess I'm really looking for one person amongst the hundreds of developers who are involved with Calibre. So I hold out hope

Are you serious?

See ==>> https://github.com/kovidgoyal/calibre/commits/master.

And the decline in 'interest in calibre' seems remarkably similar to the decline in interest in ebook reader devices. Most the people I know who bought one ten years ago have discarded it. Some read on their phones and tablets, and others, heaven forfend, have reverted to black ink on white paper. Independent bookshops are booming here and elsewhere.

BR

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by viztastic

I was about to embark on a journey to design my own modern looking/feeling eBook reader/management platform until I ran into Calibre. Calibre seems to have everything from a functionality point of view but the user experience feels dated.

If modern means like Android, Win10 etc, forget it. So called modern UI are a disastrous UX and throwaway everything learned from 1976 to 2000.

Vista was garbage: Too fancy.
Win10 is garbage: Too flat, by default GUI elements such as scroll bars hide. It's like 1980s Hercules display. Too many elements are vague: is that text, or a link, or status or a button?

Stupid check boxes made to look like slide switches.
Tabs where you can't see which is active.
Lacking lines to group "radio buttons" (that's where only one item can be checked.
No Close button X on windows

"Dated" might apply to newspaper, comic or magazine design, but 25 to 30 year old GUI elements are high productivity and clear. I use a Theme based on Server 2003 GUI on my Linux Mint.

Also anathema, except for a small widgets, are programs that ignore the system GUI and do their own. Nearly twenty years ago I learned who to do Java programs that simply used the current system Theme and looked Native on XP (no matter which theme), Mac, and various Linux desktops on Red Hat and Ubuntu.

Calibre runs on Mac, Windows and Linux. Unlike Mac & Windows now, there are a real choice of Desktops and of Themes on them. Linux even has tools to tweak appearance of some applications using QT or other frameworks etc.

So I now hate Thunderbird's horrible flat design and ghastly stock CSS. I use Waterfox Classic with Classic Theme restorer so my web browser matches OS GUI and doesn't look like some badly cloned mobile app.

To me "Modern" = post brutalist. Flat, harder to use. "Dated" = familiar, easy and obvious GUI elements.

A lot of apps and web pages now look like badly designed corporate letter heads for monochrome laser and paper.