Those "I just like the feel of a book in my hand" people

[SolRaven]

Originally Posted by Iridal

My parents have a huge library in their house with thousands of paper books that they've collected over the years. You just have to walk into that room to realize that yes, books do smell good. When I was younger and still living at home I just loved spending time there, looking at the cover art, reading a book in a comfortable chair.

I have a reader now because it's so much easier to carry around, but I'll probably never stop buying (collecting) paper books.

It's funny, because when I was a child I always dreamed of having a large lush, floor to 12' ceiling filled library. Perhaps that was why working in a library was one of my first jobs.

One of my reasons for buying a reader is that I have 10' of book shelving and when I moved to S. Florida a few years ago, my biggest weight was all of these books. Although I love them, it really wasn't practical. So, I try to go through my books periodically and scale them down. Any paperback novels that I read are definitely out. I never liked paperbacks. They seem so temporary.

[SolRaven]

Originally Posted by Bikeridr

As an engineer, I shall not begin the discussion of the environmental catastrophe the electric car is. (As opposed to everyones belief, it pollutes way more than a modern combustion engine car).

I would love to see your research on that. If you have it available, feel free to PM me.

[Bikeridr]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

I would love to see your research on that. If you have it available, feel free to PM me.

I don't do research. I just make my opinion based on facts.
And, instead of PM'ing you (and everyone else), I'll answer here for everyone to read.

Battery pack:
Made either of lead-acid type or lithium-ion.
Lead and sulphuric acid is not environmentally friendly, neiter in production, nor if leaking into environment, should an accident occur.
Lithium is not environmentally friendly to produce and if let into nature, more poisonous than cyanide.
Besides, lithium-ion batteries are prone to explode if overheated. Lithium burns with a temperature of 6.000C or 10.800F.

Electric motor:
The varnish used on windings are mostly PCB and a coctail of other not very environmentally friendly components.

Consumption economics:
A modern diesel driven engine typically gets about 40-45% energy out of the specific energy potential of diesel oil.
An electric motor typically has a efficiency level of 85%.

Lets assume (as still in many countries) you get electricity by coal. (In several countries in Europe, nuclear power is banned or restricted).
1kg coal gives about 1/2 of the specific energy potential as diesel, but produces twice as much CO2. Thus, to get the same energy level out on the wheels of a car, you typically need twice as much, which then gives 4 times the CO2 emission.
Then there is cable loss in the power cables from the power plant to your house or charge station. Let's for conveniance say 15% (which is a common value).
Then again, a charging battery only utilises 50% og the enery. Thus, to charge (just to take a number) 1KW into a battery, you have to "give" it 2KW.

So, a diesel engine car manages to utilise about 40-45% of the energy potential of the fed diesel.
An electric car will utilise: 85% of the power plant fed electricity, 50% of the charged energy and 85% in electric motor efficiency. In addition, we started out with twice the CO2 emission.
So, 0,85*0,5*0,85 gives ~36% efficiency.

[Iridal]

Originally Posted by SolRaven

One of my reasons for buying a reader is that I have 10' of book shelving and when I moved to S. Florida a few years ago, my biggest weight was all of these books. Although I love them, it really wasn't practical. So, I try to go through my books periodically and scale them down. Any paperback novels that I read are definitely out. I never liked paperbacks. They seem so temporary.

Yes, they do weigh a lot. I moved as well a couple of months ago, and even though I only have a couple of hundred books I had way too many heavy boxes filled with books. Luckily I live in a tiny country, so you're never moving far away. 3.5 km to be exact

[Bikeridr]

Originally Posted by Iridal

Yes, they do weigh a lot. I moved as well a couple of months ago, and even though I only have a couple of hundred books I had way too many heavy boxes filled with books. Luckily I live in a tiny country, so you're never moving far away. 3.5 km to be exact

I'm looking forward to move myself, but not looking forward to pack all my/our books.
Besides, we're moving to another country and 1.700km.

[SolRaven]

Originally Posted by Bikeridr

I don't do research. I just make my opinion based on facts.
And, instead of PM'ing you (and everyone else), I'll answer here for everyone to read.

Battery pack:
Made either of lead-acid type or lithium-ion.
Lead and sulphuric acid is not environmentally friendly, neiter in production, nor if leaking into environment, should an accident occur.
Lithium is not environmentally friendly to produce and if let into nature, more poisonous than cyanide.
Besides, lithium-ion batteries are prone to explode if overheated. Lithium burns with a temperature of 6.000C or 10.800F.

Electric motor:
The varnish used on windings are mostly PCB and a coctail of other not very environmentally friendly components.

Consumption economics:
A modern diesel driven engine typically gets about 40-45% energy out of the specific energy potential of diesel oil.
An electric motor typically has a efficiency level of 85%.

Lets assume (as still in many countries) you get electricity by coal. (In several countries in Europe, nuclear power is banned or restricted).
1kg coal gives about 1/2 of the specific energy potential as diesel, but produces twice as much CO2. Thus, to get the same energy level out on the wheels of a car, you typically need twice as much, which then gives 4 times the CO2 emission.
Then there is cable loss in the power cables from the power plant to your house or charge station. Let's for conveniance say 15% (which is a common value).
Then again, a charging battery only utilises 50% og the enery. Thus, to charge (just to take a number) 1KW into a battery, you have to "give" it 2KW.

So, a diesel engine car manages to utilise about 40-45% of the energy potential of the fed diesel.
An electric car will utilise: 85% of the power plant fed electricity, 50% of the charged energy and 85% in electric motor efficiency. In addition, we started out with twice the CO2 emission.
So, 0,85*0,5*0,85 gives ~36% efficiency.

Oh, I see. Well, I don't drive a diesel car, I drive a car that takes gasoline. Would you give me a round about assessment based on your opinion for that, or do you have any cold hard data that I could seriously consider?

I doubt anyone else is interested, we were talking about books vs. readers, but since you offered your opinion based on my vehicle preference (not that I asked), I figured you could at least give me a solid piece of data. Other than the single word "clean" I stated a few other reasons why I would switch from a manual transmission to electric. Clean also means not having to check my oil. A few other words were silent & super quick. Of course, that's based on my opinion. You may have the opinion that they are slow and loud. In which case, you should stick to diesel and I'll drive what I like.

Anyhow, back to books vs. readers. Gasoline powered chain saw killing clean air producing trees, or lithium battery in your Kindle?

[Ea]

I've relied almost solely on library books most of my life, so while I can follow the argument of the sensual experience of paper books, I think I never learned to appreciate it, since I hardly ever got or bought a new book. Somehow I never learned to value a book as an object - it was simply a means of entertainment or information. An e-book reader affords me so much convenience compared to a paper book anyway.

[Anarel]

I mean, before e-readers came out, no one was ever like- Oh, I just LOVE the way a book feels in my hand. I mean, I really love the smell, and turning pages is an exquisite experience to have while reading.

Had you ever in your life heard that before you knew about e-readers? I hadn't. There's romanticism and sentimentality and nostalgia and then there's clinging to the old with a fear for the new just because it's different.

[DiapDealer]

Had you ever in your life heard that before you knew about e-readers?

Not to take one side or the other in this issue, but yes... the "I love the smell of books" mentality has been around long before the ereader was even a glimmer of an idea in some science-fiction author's head.

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by Anarel

I mean, before e-readers came out, no one was ever like- Oh, I just LOVE the way a book feels in my hand. I mean, I really love the smell, and turning pages is an exquisite experience to have while reading.

Had you ever in your life heard that before you knew about e-readers? I hadn't. There's romanticism and sentimentality and nostalgia and then there's clinging to the old with a fear for the new just because it's different.

I've always loved the smell of new books, particularly mass market paperbacks. But I thought that I was the only one! Now I've found out that lots of people share that pleasure!

[cvkemp]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

I've always loved the smell of new books, particularly mass market paperbacks. But I thought that I was the only one! Now I've found out that lots of people share that pleasure!

I personally cry when I see new books. Why because I know that some where a tree was cut down to create that book as some point in time.
I am not say that the use of trees as products is a total crime I am only saying why cut trees down for books when there are plenty of other choices.

I do not blame you I am more upset with the publishers that can not get out o the 1800s.

[Kirtai]

Originally Posted by Bikeridr

Back to books; an ebook reader ("lesebrett") would probably not in a foreeable (or immediate) future become a foldout A2 size weather proof atlas. So, my Wil Tirion Star Atlas still beats the ebook reader by far, out in the field on astronomy observing.

Not foldout, but with flexible screens I'd expect to see a rollup large size reader sometime.

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

No way i can use it as a headrest, pillow or forget it in the rain, or even step on it. I think in this aspect books are still better than liseuses...

One thing I've noticed people doing a lot is forgetting that todays ereaders are still extremely primitive devices. Let's see what ereaders are like in 5-10 years before deciding what they're capable of

[Iridal]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

I personally cry when I see new books. Why because I know that some where a tree was cut down to create that book as some point in time.
I am not say that the use of trees as products is a total crime I am only saying why cut trees down for books when there are plenty of other choices.

I do not blame you I am more upset with the publishers that can not get out o the 1800s.

Just thinking about all the fuel that goes into making and transporting reading devices sends shivers down my spine ... That doesn't seem like an environment-friendly alternative to me.

Hooray for recycled paper !

[crash86]

I have been reading for 38 of my 42 years on this earth and the one thing that I never did was inhale the scent of a paper book. It was there but it never did anything for me. I loved nothing better than curling up with a good book and getting lost in the story. I have always bought hardcovers of authors I like, only one or two authors but still, and used to have a very extensive library.

I then moved overseas and had to leave behind 2500 books, which my ex ended up giving away or selling without me knowing. But then I moved around alot and always had to leave books behind due to weight issues.

I had always dreamed of having a house or apartment big enough to have my own dedicated library room but again storage is an issue so I got an e-reader.

I love my e-reader, it's easy to carry and hold. I can take hundreds of books with me on one device and especially on vacation where I used to carry around 4-7 large books to tie me over now I can carry as many as I want without a weight issue. I also love that now I don't have to break my wrists with an 800 + hardcover.

I do still buy the odd paper book for a collection or something that I will want to treasure and pass on, but the majority of my reading is now on my e-reader. I love to read and the means of doing it doesn't matter just as long as I read. I have found that now with a reader I read more than when I was reading paper books. the other thing I love about my reader is the amount of free books you can get.... Yes yes I know the library debate but I have always hated having deadlines to reading a book and now with so many free books that are available for me it is another plus to having an e-reader.

It's all good whether you read on a reader or stick to paper books it just doesn't matter, the only thing that really matters is the enjoyment of reading.

[OakIris]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Most 'feel-of-the-book' folks have never tried ebook readers. They blindly associate and confuse a love of reading with a love of treebooks because they have never experienced a book in any other form.

I've encountered few who haven't almost immediately re-evaluated their prejudice after giving electronic presentation a fair crack of the whip.

Best wishes. Neil (who loves the feel and the smell of his rich leather reader cover)

lol - I just ordered my first eReader , a Kindle 3, last night so I can have the convenience of an eReader; I love gadgets and I love reading so look forward to a new reading experience.

On the other hand, I have also purchased an Oberon leather cover for my reader so I guess I am also assuaging my need (??) to have reading associated with a sensual experience - the added heft of the reader because of the cover=a "real" book, the smell and feel of the leather.

I can't imagine I will ever give up hard cover/paper back books; they have been an enriching necessary part of my entire life. I probably have 4-5000 in my house, lots of fiction/science fiction, history, computer books, gardening books, etc. I will probably hand on or sell some of these, but a lot of them are keepers - a lot because they aren't available as eBooks, and others because I can't afford to repalce them with their eBook forms.

Running out of room is one reason I decided it was time for an eReader, but the convenience factor is also a plus, and all of the free classics, etc. - and it's a gadget.

Holly