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Old 09-14-2018, 01:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Alohamora View Post
...LCD screens appear to have better contrast...
It is a fact that they do, and not by just a little bit. LCD display contrast is orders of magnitude better than E Ink displays (and OLED displays have, essentially, infinite contrast so even better contrast).

Higher contrast displays remain readable at lower levels of lighting than lower contrast ones can. The concept is much like dynamic range in music. That applies whether the display is front lit paper, a front lit reflective display such as E Ink, a back lit display such as LCD, or an emissive display such as AMOLED. The difference is very noticeable when one compares low contrast displays such as paper and E Ink to a much higher contrast display such as LCD or AMOLED. It also explains why LCD and OLED displays are much better at displaying grayscale images than E Ink displays, their much wider "dynamic range" means that the whites can be whiter and the blacks blacker, and hence a wider range of "greys" and differentiation between them.

There is no universally adopted way of measuring contrast allowing exact comparisons but, typically, paper has a contrast ratio of around 10, E Ink is a little higher than paper, LCD displays are typically of order in excess of 1000, and (as I mentioned) OLEDs are essentially infinity.

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Old 09-14-2018, 01:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
...it might be R.I.P. e-reader...
Careful saying things like that, all the E Ink fanboys will have you excommunicated .

Whoops, reading the rest of the thread I see they have started doing so already .
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:29 AM   #18
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Personally, I'll read on whatever device I have to hand, and I usually have my phone, iPad Mini and Icarus to hand (or at least somewhere in the house on a charger). I often have 3 books on the go. I usually read on the train to and from work - the journey is about 55 minutes and I'm usually reading for at least 30 minutes at a stretch. The rest of the commute is too short or I'm driving. I don't read at work unless I am taking a long lunch break - I usually only have 30 minutes and by the time I've eaten my lunch and cleared up it's time to get stuck in again. Otherwise, I'll read in the evenings.

Some books I can only read on a single device - my graphic novels and textbooks are only read on the iPad because of the bigger screen size and landscape mode. I've just finished Andrew Caldecott's Rotherweird - I started it on the phone and finished it on the Icarus. The layout didn't work at all well on the phone. Others I'll read on whatever is charged up and to hand (and how my wrists feel - I get tendonitis so need something light or something to rest the device on).

Screen type doesn't bother me, neither (usually) does screen size. If I'm sleepy, I prefer a bigger screen, but I'm not fussed whether it's LCD or eInk - unless it's late evening when I prefer eInk (even on night setting LCD tends to be too bright).
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:11 AM   #19
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Changing how you spend your time is bound to affect what tech you use, and commutes and SOs are both major time sinks that require adaptation. They're also both subject to future change, which may require you to re-adapt. My KPW got mostly set aside for a while when I switched from transit to driving for my commute, then came out again when I switched to a job with a set lunch break.

I can't say I prefer LCD for low light, though I can put up with it. If I have the Kindle on my person or within reach, I'm likely to pull it out rather than read on my phone, but I don't make a point of taking it everywhere I might want to read. If I'm travelling, lately I take the tablet and leave the Kindle at home.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:47 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
The obvious solution is the Yotaphone 2 or Yotaphone 3.

I read on E-Ink on my phone.
Came here to say the same thing.
But I only read on my Yotaphone 2 when on the move. At home I still like to use 6" front-lit e-ink reader.

There is also Hisense A2 and A2Pro available from Chinese servers.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alohamora View Post
I saw things basically the same way Katsunami did when I borrowed a Paperwhite and tried it in low lighting. With the front light adjusted low enough to be comfortable, the contrast was low, downright murky. LCD screens appear to have better contrast.
Somewhere in the past, I've commented on the Paperwhite looking like two sheets of glass with milk in between, with letters floating in there, when using the device in low light conditions. It's downright horrible.

I use the front-light to make the screen brighter, setting the strength to make it match the ambient light. As soon as the screen looks as if it's illuminated, it's too bright. This means that, in total darkness or very low light conditions, it's ALWAYS too bright.

With the phone, I've set the background to pure black for the night mode. If the brightness isn't 100% up, it's actually black. The dark orange letters just seem to float in space. (At 100%, it gets to be dark gray/black, and then the letters will be too bright.)

Quote:
I am absolutely in awe of how good modern smartphones have become, fast, great screens, all day battery life. Direct sunlight is the only situation where I could still wish for improvement.
Yes. My Nokia 6.1 (with SD-card) has replaced my music player, and is now fast replacing my e-ereader. I can do whatever I want, and bar using the phone on full brightness for hours and hours on end, I can basically use it for two days until I need to charge it.

I'm actually thinking to get a 10.x inch tablet for home use. (My 7 year old Tegra II tablet doesn't cut it anymore).

Let's see.

10.5 inch @ 16:10, 1920x1200. That is 215.6 dpi.
That's 8.91 inch across, and 5.57 inch high.

If I'd put two pages beside one another, each page would be 4.445 inch wide, and 5.57 inch high. The diagonal would be 7.13 inch approximately. Aspect ratio would be 3:75:3, or just a little less tall than 'normal.'

I'd get a 7-8 inch tablet, but there's nothing on the market that runs Android 8.1 and/or is going to run 9.0, at this time. And the only useful tablet in this range is a Samsung... and I don't like their huge amount of bloatware.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
Somewhere in the past, I've commented on the Paperwhite looking like two sheets of glass with milk in between, with letters floating in there, when using the device in low light conditions. It's downright horrible.

I use the front-light to make the screen brighter, setting the strength to make it match the ambient light. As soon as the screen looks as if it's illuminated, it's too bright. This means that, in total darkness or very low light conditions, it's ALWAYS too bright.

With the phone, I've set the background to pure black for the night mode. If the brightness isn't 100% up, it's actually black. The dark orange letters just seem to float in space. (At 100%, it gets to be dark gray/black, and then the letters will be too bright.)
I see. When you mentioned night mode I was thinking dimming of the screen, but still leaving black text on white background. Black background and white text (or any color for that matter) does look lots better on LCD, even more so on OLED. At night I do prefer pure red text on black, but the Kindle app only allows white, so that is out. At night inverted mode on eink is pure garbage—in order to have the letters bright enough, the background is no longer dark enough. I just don't bother with inverted on any device any more.

So, yes, I would ditch my eink reader at night as well if I needed inverted mode. Fortunately my eink reader is good enough to read in any lighting condition and I do like the ergonomics (big screen and buttons).

Last edited by DuckieTigger; 09-14-2018 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:21 AM   #23
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The only times I read on my phone is when I am at places where it is inconvenient to take my tablet or e-reader, like the barber shop or the dentist. In places like those I need something that will fit in my front pocket.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:23 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
There is one other advantage in reading from a phone, at least for me.

So, when a message from her comes in, I read up to the next scene break or the end of the chapter, switch to whatsapp, reply, and then jump right back into the book. It prevents me from having to juggle both the e-reader and the phone.
It's interesting how we all find different things convenient or inconvenient. If I am expecting emails to which I may need to reply, I would rather read a book on my Sony reader with my phone nearby so I can handle the emails on the phone without having to close my book. I find switching devices less annoying than switching in and out of a book on the same device.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:08 PM   #25
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I've never tried reading on my phone. In the past (15-20 years ago, roughly) I've used a Palm handheld device (with a wider screen, but much lower resolution, than my current phone) to read short stories, and that was OK - though I wouldn't do it now; my eyesight is worse now than it was then.

I try to avoid it now, but sometimes I still read on my tablet (standard-sized iPad).
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
.

If I encounter no great disadvantages in the near future, it might be R.I.P. e-reader...

Blue light is bad for your eyes. So if you get early MD you will only be listening to audio books....we constantly stare at blue light all day...(tv, interior lights and just about any light) do you really want to stare at your phone 24/7??
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:05 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by AnotherCat View Post
It is a fact that they do, and not by just a little bit. LCD display contrast is orders of magnitude better than E Ink displays (and OLED displays have, essentially, infinite contrast so even better contrast).
It's probably partly (at least) the high contrast that makes LCD screens uncomfortable for extended reading sessions. I don't know why, I just know what is — I can read for hours with eInk devices without eye fatigue and I can't do that with LCD devices.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:19 PM   #28
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I don't know why, I just know what is — I can read for hours with eInk devices without eye fatigue and I can't do that with LCD devices.
Me too. Phone is OK for a few minutes but not for long term.

I just hope manufacturers keep making e-ink devices for those of us who prefer them.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:31 PM   #29
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It's probably partly (at least) the high contrast that makes LCD screens uncomfortable for extended reading sessions. I don't know why, I just know what is — I can read for hours with eInk devices without eye fatigue and I can't do that with LCD devices.
Unless one has some sort of serious eye complaint it is having the screen too bright that causes problems.

The better reading apps for phones/tablets/PCs include both good and easy control of brightness and of color (which does not mean one has to have dramatic colors just that one can introduce, for example, a light tint to the background so that it is more paper like). The eye will accommodate to quite low levels as people who travel regularly from low latitudes to high latitude winters know (to say much beyond 50 degrees N or S); the eyes accommodate but then one goes to take a photo and wonders why the exposure is so long.

Reflective displays such as E Ink are just not capable of high brightnesses even if artificially front lit, as they are very inefficient reflectors (compare with the reflection of light from a mirror or polished chromium plated surface, for example).

Even IT pros can get caught out with brightness on displays. Just a couple of weeks ago I had a case where one complained of developing headaches and it had got to the stage where he was quite worried and tried various things (eliminating various foods, been to an optician, for example) and was about to go to the doctor expecting a brain tumor. I suggested to him to check his monitor as the headaches started occurring after he had started working in a new client's office on one of their workstations, but he was insistent it would not be that as it did not look bright. However, in the end he turned the brightness down, his eyes accommodated the lower level so he did not notice the difference, and his headaches disappeared immediately.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:50 PM   #30
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Unless one has some sort of serious eye complaint it is having the screen too bright that causes problems.

The better reading apps for phones/tablets/PCs include both good and easy control of brightness and of color (which does not mean one has to have dramatic colors just that one can introduce, for example, a light tint to the background so that it is more paper like). ...
I've tried just about every setting I can on these apps. Night mode, dimmer light, brighter light, various backgrounds (green, sepia, etc.) — I can never make it comfortable for my eyes. I fully realize that not everyone is the same. I also have issues with front-lit eInk screens — but I don't have these issues with eInk and my own external lighting.
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