Computer Monitors for Photosensitive Readers?

[Pajamaman]

You can either slave a screen to a PC, or run apps natively on the ereader device and control it via a BT keyboard. I used an Onyx for a while with Vim and a keyboard to write on. Worked fine, but my eyes are okay so I don't need it.

If I were you, I would get the biggest screen possible. Onyx are solid kit. In my experience they last years. Also they have lots of graphic settings to make them function without flashing. A Dasung may be better out of the box as it's designed to be a monitor. Onyx (some) can be used, but it is not their primary function. The more recent ones are probably the best. I have a lot of faith in Onyx as they have a lot of functionality and are well built, but you will have to frick with it a bit. I think they might make an e-ink laptop, but I guess its Android. You will need to think how you plan to use this screen, as a slave to Windows/Linux/Apple, or as a stand-alone Android device. E-ink for screen is pretty out there stuff. A built in light is highly desirable, but you can get round it by shining a really good light on the screen.

I suggest you watch a lot of videos before laying out cash. Otto knows what he's talking about. He uses one.

[MarjaE]

Thank you.

Videos and searches are a challenge, since videos about these often move about, zoom in, etc. and websites like the Spacedesk manual page often smooth scroll.

The Likebook Mars is too small for this, but if I can find good screen sharing options for it, I can get a feel for my options.

P.S. I'm looking for screen sharing options. Duet Display is supposed to be the best, but their website isn't accessible, and triggers my migraines. Spacedesk isn't compatible, and their website isn't accessible either.

P.P.S. This lists a number of Mac-compatible options. Most are Mac + iOS but a few work with Android too: https://techwiser.com/duet-display-alternatives/

P.P.P.S. Tried using Splashtop free with my Boyue Likebook Mars, but trying to deal with screen size differences, cursor lag, and flashing led to yet another migraine, and... that's not a way to avoid migraines. My current pdf app has trouble with the screen size adjustments.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

Tried using Splashtop free with my Boyue Likebook Mars,

So, I have now tested my Likebook Ares as a PC monitor.
It is essentially the same as the Mars.

There are problems with an EInk monitor with mouse or touchpad, because EInk reacts very slowly - the cursor does not slide, it jumps.
I recommend using the EInk Note device (Boox Note Air) as a computer and controlling it with pen, keyboard and remote control (Boox Remoter).

[MarjaE]

I'm looking for an auxiliary monitor for my existing computer.

So that I can write, check email, browse the web, etc. without as many migraines or as much glare and eye strain, and so that I don't have to transfer as many files as often before reading. I need to run k2, splice, ocrmypdf, and Calibre, too...

Will that work as an auxiliary monitor?

[salamanderjuice]

The Note Air would only work as a monitor through an app like Spacedesk, Duet Display, etc. It doesn't have native support to be a monitor like the Max Lumi. What ottischwenk is saying is that paired with a bluetooth keyboard, the pen and Boox remote he uses it like a computer. For tasks like web browsing and writing emails it can work.

Won't run Calibre though.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

Will that work as an auxiliary monitor?

Did you see the Video?

[MarjaE]

Thanks, I missed that.

Spacedesk is Windows-only so I tried Splashtop XDisplay instead. I also consider Duet Display, but I had trouble with their website.

I found Optimal Layout to solve my window-size problems.

I get a lot of flashing on the Mars due to loading animation, and 3 intense flashes on both monitors when it finally connects, and then it can't detect the screen resolution, using only part of the already-small screen.

I still get awful mouse cursor flashing. I can't use touch on it. I suppose Duet may work a bit differently.

I hope a conventional hdmi connection would work better, but don't know how to test that.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

I still get awful mouse cursor flashing. I can't use touch on it. I suppose Duet may work a bit differently.

The mouse pointer will always be a problem with EInk.
The screen is too slow.
The mouse pointer cannot glide there, there is no other way that the mouse pointer jumps.

With EInk, as a computer, you have to point with the pen where the cursor should go and then continue there with the keyboard.
Of course, this is not possible with EInk as a monitor.

[MarjaE]

I've tried watching more videos to check on mouse cursors, but most of them show zooming, scrolling, extra flashing, etc. and don't show show mouse usage. Feeling very sick.

[MarjaE]

Thinking over my reactions to these flashes.

I'm sensitive to anything from turn signals and hazard lights, which usually run at about 3 hz, to ambulance and construction safety lights, which run a lot faster, to flourescent bulbs as they're burning out, which drop to 60 hz in North America or 50 hz in Europe. With the Bucha effect the most common danger zone is 1 to 20 hz, and with photosensitive epilepsy it's 3 to 30 hz, though there's a lot of individual variation.

If I can track down how quickly each device renders animation, that may help. And it may be easier to find one with animation speeds below, say, 1.5 flashes/second than above 60 flashes/second.

Does anyone know where to find that info? A lot of the "screen refresh rate" info refers to the full screen refresh after x pages, not the possible refreshes per second.

I would need to look into more keyboard navigation options instead of the mouse. I already use Page Down and other nav keys to cut down on scrolling animation.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

Thinking over my reactions to these flashes.

I'm sensitive to anything from turn signals and hazard lights, which usually run at about 3 hz, to ambulance and construction safety lights, which run a lot faster, to flourescent bulbs as they're burning out, which drop to 60 hz in North America or 50 hz in Europe. With the Bucha effect the most common danger zone is 1 to 20 hz, and with photosensitive epilepsy it's 3 to 30 hz, though there's a lot of individual variation.

If I can track down how quickly each device renders animation, that may help. And it may be easier to find one with animation speeds below, say, 1.5 flashes/second than above 60 flashes/second.

Does anyone know where to find that info? A lot of the "screen refresh rate" info refers to the full screen refresh after x pages, not the possible refreshes per second.

I would need to look into more keyboard navigation options instead of the mouse. I already use Page Down and other nav keys to cut down on scrolling animation.

Probably because eInk screens don't really have a refresh rate per say. The waveshare monitor you mentioned says on their page that the fastest refresh mode is about 15hz (15fps). That seems about on par with what my Oynx's fastest refresh mode is. It comes with a quality hit though and more ghosting.

Are high Hz bad? Gaming monitors these days are hitting 144-240Hz instead of the usual 60Hz.

[MarjaE]

It's not that higher is better or lower is better. It's that certain frequency ranges can screw with the brain.

Most conventional screens stay at the high end of the range, or above it. Though ux/ui animations such as blinking cursors are often in that range.

Common e-ink usage is at the low end of the range, or below it, but the combination of newer faster e-ink displays and animation can run right into the middle of the range.

Now people with similar symptoms to mine often report that e-ink monitors helped them. So I suspect it's a combination of factors involved. I think e-ink tends to help with these symptoms because it is grayscale instead of color, because it reduces brightness and glare, and so on. But it does tend to flash more. And I need to avoid flashing in or near that 3 to 30 hz range. P.S. I find e-readers definitely help, and an e-ink tablet definitely is easier than a conventional one, though certain apps are awful because of rapid flashing.

An older e-ink display which can't get much more than 1.5 partial refreshes per second may be better for me than a newer one which can get 15 per second.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

An older e-ink display which can't get much more than 1.5 partial refreshes per second may be better for me than a newer one which can get 15 per second.

EInk does not flash at all - in EInk technology small black/white balls are moved.
Only in Refresh are they all briefly set to black and then back, which you might see as flashing.
In A2 mode, which the Chinese EInk tablets can handle, this refresh does not exist, but very slight ghosting remains.
But since, as described above, small balls are moved, the buildup of an image is not fast - it takes about 0.07 seconds (about 15 Hz), in this speed image changes can happen.
This is fast enough for text/image scrolling, but not fast enough for smooth mouse movement, because in these 0.07 seconds the mouse pointer is already elsewhere.
I almost only use EInk devices that can handle A2 mode and also use a Boox Poke 2 in my car as a glare-free navigation device.

[MarjaE]

Thank you!

Either enabling or disabling A2 mode stopped the flashing/refreshing behind the mouse cursor. And helped with some of the flashing/refreshing in the loading screen. So very low refresh rates may not be necessary. Keyboard navigation seems to work in my pdf reader. So very high refresh rates won't be necessary there either.

I've also found that yellow sheets help me see, so I'm considering a yellow overlay.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

I've also found that yellow sheets help me see, so I'm considering a yellow overlay.

Each additional layer deteriorates the image quality.
You could set the light color to night light (yellow).