Child-friendly vocabulary --- a Quandary - Page 3

GMcG · 08-19-2015, 04:25 PM

"Keep your pecker up!" is a harmless phrase in my dictionary English-German from 1977. The meaning is "Keep your head up" or "Don't hang your head."

So in your second example it could be:

‘All right,’ the parrot answered; ‘keep your head up!
‘What did it say?’ the Pretenderette asked.
‘Something about head,’ said Philip upside down.
‘Ah!’ said the Pretenderette with satisfaction, ‘he won’t need his head anymore for some time to come.'

But it's not the same playing with words.

George

PeterT · 08-20-2015, 10:24 AM

I'd actually say that "Keep your pecker up!" is more akin to "Keep your spirits up!"

HarryT · 08-20-2015, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterT

I'd actually say that "Keep your pecker up!" is more akin to "Keep your spirits up!"

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

AlexBell · 08-24-2015, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

To some people in some places at some periods of history. To other people in different places at different times it can mean something very different - which I think was GrannyGrump's concern in the first post in this thread.

GrannyGrump · 08-25-2015, 06:01 AM

Alex understands my pain.

In the US, the phrase *only* has an obscene meaning, sorry to say.

@George --- your re-write was much better than anything I ever managed! I have already posted the book with the original vocabulary/wording, but one day soon I will edit it your way, and post as an alternative download, marked as *cleansed for young readers*. Thanks.

AlexBell · 08-26-2015, 02:33 AM

I have another example, and hope no one is offended by it.

I'm preparing Harriet Martineau's Autobiography for the MR library, and have got as far as Period 6, Section 7. This afternoon I reached this sentence:

'Of Mr Dickens I have seen but little in face-to-face intercourse; but I am glad to have enjoyed that little.'

I'm sure Miss Martineau did not intend to convey the meaning which most people in our times would read into her words. Anyone have any suggestions for alternate wording?

HarryT · 08-26-2015, 02:45 AM

Why on earth would you feel the need to change that? "Intercourse" simply means a connection or communication between people. It's an entirely normal and everyday word. Anyone who automatically associates "intercourse" with "sexual intercourse" is just ignorant.

It's one thing editing books for children; it's another thing entirely to pander to the ignorant adult. I'd strongly suggest leaving this one well alone.

pdurrant · 08-26-2015, 03:34 AM

Ditto.

Cinisajoy · 08-26-2015, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I have another example, and hope no one is offended by it.

I'm preparing Harriet Martineau's Autobiography for the MR library, and have got as far as Period 6, Section 7. This afternoon I reached this sentence:

'Of Mr Dickens I have seen but little in face-to-face intercourse; but I am glad to have enjoyed that little.'

I'm sure Miss Martineau did not intend to convey the meaning which most people in our times would read into her words. Anyone have any suggestions for alternate wording?

They met in New Jersey?
I also see no reason to change it.

eschwartz · 08-26-2015, 09:00 PM

I would have to agree.

The current modern meaning of "intercourse" remains "communication or dealings between individuals or groups".

The fact that some people automatically expand "intercourse" to the subclass of "sexual intercourse" is irrelevant.

At the very least, people will know exactly what it means. Although I suppose, yes, there will be immature individuals who will say "hur hur, intercourse!"

They probably say the same thing when filling out paperwork and getting to the question:

Quote:

sex:
__ male
__ female

HarryT · 08-27-2015, 03:08 AM

There is a town called "Intercourse" in Pennsylvania, so it would certainly appear that its meaning to the American reader is not automatically a sexual one.

eschwartz · 08-27-2015, 03:13 AM

No, that doesn't prove anything. We have a lot of incredibly bizarre names.

HarryT · 08-27-2015, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

No, that doesn't prove anything. We have a lot of incredibly bizarre names.

Given the fact, though, that Pennsylvania was largely settled by the Quakers, it's probably a reasonable assumption that they named the town "Intercourse" after the idea of people gathering together into a community, rather than any sexual meaning

.

eschwartz · 08-27-2015, 09:21 AM

Their Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercourse,_Pennsylvania
At least, it proves the word had no sexual meaning back when the Quakers named it!
For proof that the word still has no exclusive sexual meaning, one must look to other sources.

But of course, I despair for humanity when I see that such a place becomes a tourist attraction for the abovementioned immature individuals.

Cinisajoy · 08-27-2015, 02:11 PM

And I put Intercourse in the wrong state.

08-26-2015, 02:45 AM	#37
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Why on earth would you feel the need to change that? "Intercourse" simply means a connection or communication between people. It's an entirely normal and everyday word. Anyone who automatically associates "intercourse" with "sexual intercourse" is just ignorant. It's one thing editing books for children; it's another thing entirely to pander to the ignorant adult. I'd strongly suggest leaving this one well alone. Last edited by HarryT; 08-26-2015 at 02:48 AM.

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08-19-2015, 04:25 PM	#31
GMcG Writer Posts: 101 Karma: 590630 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Device: none	"Keep your pecker up!" is a harmless phrase in my dictionary English-German from 1977. The meaning is "Keep your head up" or "Don't hang your head." So in your second example it could be: ‘All right,’ the parrot answered; ‘keep your head up! ‘What did it say?’ the Pretenderette asked. ‘Something about head,’ said Philip upside down. ‘Ah!’ said the Pretenderette with satisfaction, ‘he won’t need his head anymore for some time to come.' But it's not the same playing with words. George

08-20-2015, 10:24 AM	#32
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,165 Karma: 73448616 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Nexus 7, Clara, Touch, Tolino EPOS	I'd actually say that "Keep your pecker up!" is more akin to "Keep your spirits up!"

08-25-2015, 06:01 AM	#35
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,200 Karma: 34977896 Join Date: May 2011 Location: JAPAN (US expatriate) Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	Alex understands my pain. In the US, the phrase only has an obscene meaning, sorry to say. @George --- your re-write was much better than anything I ever managed! I have already posted the book with the original vocabulary/wording, but one day soon I will edit it your way, and post as an alternative download, marked as cleansed for young readers. Thanks.

08-26-2015, 02:33 AM	#36
AlexBell Wizard Posts: 3,413 Karma: 13369310 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Launceston, Tasmania Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet	I have another example, and hope no one is offended by it. I'm preparing Harriet Martineau's Autobiography for the MR library, and have got as far as Period 6, Section 7. This afternoon I reached this sentence: 'Of Mr Dickens I have seen but little in face-to-face intercourse; but I am glad to have enjoyed that little.' I'm sure Miss Martineau did not intend to convey the meaning which most people in our times would read into her words. Anyone have any suggestions for alternate wording?

08-26-2015, 03:34 AM	#38
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 71,504 Karma: 306214458 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Voyage	Ditto.

08-27-2015, 03:08 AM	#41
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	There is a town called "Intercourse" in Pennsylvania, so it would certainly appear that its meaning to the American reader is not automatically a sexual one.

08-27-2015, 03:13 AM	#42
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	No, that doesn't prove anything. We have a lot of incredibly bizarre names.

08-27-2015, 09:21 AM	#44
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Their Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercourse,_Pennsylvania At least, it proves the word had no sexual meaning back when the Quakers named it! For proof that the word still has no exclusive sexual meaning, one must look to other sources. But of course, I despair for humanity when I see that such a place becomes a tourist attraction for the abovementioned immature individuals.

08-27-2015, 02:11 PM	#45
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	And I put Intercourse in the wrong state.