Pan Macmillan: DRM Is Not Evil

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Security methods that satisfy customer and producer have been accomplished in other industries, and there's no reason to think it can't be accomplished with e-books.

Which other electronic media distribution industry can you name that has found a DRM method that satisfies both customer and producer?

The only comparable industry it seems to me is the music industry. Which after trying innumerable DRM schemes has finally decided that no DRM is best.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Which other electronic media distribution industry can you name that has found a DRM method that satisfies both customer and producer?

The only comparable industry it seems to me is the music industry. Which after trying innumerable DRM schemes has finally decided that no DRM is best.

Try television. Their DRM allows you to record a show for yourself, but forbids you to show it to others for the sake of profiting from it. Better still, you get the programs for free (commercials pay for them), which is why most people are satisfied with the DRM arrangement.

Extended example: Cable/satellite TV. DRM allows you to view their channels in your home, but not to let your neighbors take your feed. In return, you get a wealth of channels that you want to watch. In that case, desire not to lose your service is enough reason to protect your feed from neighbors.

So clearly, workable DRM is possible. Even more, when it works properly, it's practically invisible. Who today complains about not being able to rebroadcast TV shows for their own profit, or not being able to run your cable line next door?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I think the main problem is that in the seller's view, DRM is about a lot more than just copy protection (which it's miserable at anyway). To sellers, DRM is also a great way to eliminate fair use and first sale rights. That is probably just as important to them, if not more so, than copy protection. This is obviously completely opposite of what buyers want though. I think that's the real reason that DRM hasn't been "properly" implemented yet. In many seller's opinion, the current implementation IS proper.

Sorry, but I simply refuse to believe publishers are sitting in their offices saying, "We should make sure no one has fair use of their purchases."

What they ARE saying is, "We must prevent theft. If we do not, we'll go out of business."

You can't just assume for-profit companies are just going to give away their products because you stick out your hands and scream at them. You have to work with them, and that means showing them what works and what doesn't.

So far, most of the things they are hearing from the public--including many members of this forum--is, "If I can't get it without DRM, I'll take it from the darknet." So I, for one, can understand their concern. And I don't know about you guys, but I want to be able to buy their products.

Not "take from the darknet." BUY. I don't take anything from the darknet. Period. No matter how much I might want it. There are books on my list right now, that I've waited over a year to see in e, but either because of bad DRM systems, or ridiculously high prices, I have refused to buy or take. I still don't have them... not even in print. I'm waiting for a reasonably-priced, slight or no-DRM e-version... and THEN I'll open up my wallet and buy.

THAT'S what publishers want to hear. Threatening them with the darknet doesn't help. Buying non-DRM'd e-books, going back to buy more, and not putting them on the darknet does help.

If we don't work with them, they'll just stop selling to us. Who wants that?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Sorry, but I simply refuse to believe publishers are sitting in their offices saying, "We should make sure no one has fair use of their purchases."

Sure they are. In addition to copying, DRM also prevents you from doing things that don't violate copyright. You believe that's an accident?

[Barcey]

I agree that DRM is not evil but the way it's implemented today it's not digital rights management either. It's Digital here are the Rights that I claim to have management and too bad if you think you have any rights.

DRM isn't evil but it sucks, is a complete waste of money and accomplishes nothing except pissing off paying customers. I hated the way he started off saying how they will sell without DRM as a service for authors that demand it. Why not the other way around?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Sure they are. In addition to copying, DRM also prevents you from doing things that don't violate copyright. You believe that's an accident?

I believe it's an unavoidable consequence (so far) of trying to make sure purchasers don't do things that DO violate copyright.

Remember, I never said DRM was being properly implemented in e-books. I said it needs to be remolded for the e-book market (as well as pricing and incentives, to make the DRM worthwhile to customers), and it's not nearly there yet.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Sorry, but I simply refuse to believe publishers are sitting in their offices saying, "We should make sure no one has fair use of their purchases."
What they ARE saying is, "We must prevent theft. If we do not, we'll go out of business."

They are also saying, "of course people can't resell ebooks. We don't need to make it possible for them to do so, short of selling the device the book is installed on."

They don't consider first sale rights to actually be a legal right. Nor do they consider fair use to be something they're obligated to allow; they think of it as something they're not allowed to prevent. There's a big difference in legal considerations between those approaches.

I like Boyle's comparison of free use to easements in physical property. They're not just something that's permitted; they're something that's actively supported by law, to the extent that property owners are required not only to allow use of them, but to make them accessible.

THAT'S what publishers want to hear. Threatening them with the darknet doesn't help.

Yep.
Threaten them with COMPETITION.
I'm not buying new sci-fi books from Random House... but I am buying them from Baen. Not buying new ebooks from Laurell Hamilton, but I've stocked up on short stories from the Marion Zimmer Bradley Literary Works Trust at Fictionwise. Not buying from BooksOnBoard, but I'm buying from Smashwords.

There's no point in telling publishers how you're going to "punish" them for not providing what you want. Tell them where those dollars are going instead.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Not "take from the darknet." BUY. I don't take anything from the darknet. Period. No matter how much I might want it. There are books on my list right now, that I've waited over a year to see in e, but either because of bad DRM systems, or ridiculously high prices, I have refused to buy or take. I still don't have them... not even in print. I'm waiting for a reasonably-priced, slight or no-DRM e-version... and THEN I'll open up my wallet and buy.

I agree with buying instead of taking ebooks from the darknet. I only buy Ereader format since there is no limit on the number of devices. The only reason I bought the EZ-Reader was Robertb's announcement that they will support Ereader DRM.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Yep.
Threaten them with COMPETITION.

There's no point in telling publishers how you're going to "punish" them for not providing what you want. Tell them where those dollars are going instead.

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

As Sweatpea said--you enter the CC# when you first open the book, either on your computer or mobile device. After that, the book can be read on that device without trouble (unless maybe it's uninstalled & reinstalled? I haven't experimented much with secure eReader files.)

Since eRreader was designed for PDAs, this works fine. But no dedicated ebook readers use the eReader format, possibly because the unlock mechanism doesn't go well with the firmware. It's basically "enter password to open book," with your CC# as the password.

I wish some of the eInk readers would attach the software for unencrypted eReader .pdb files, though. I have plenty of those that I'd like to avoid re-converting to new formats.

Let's say for argument's sake that everybody decides on one DRM implementation. In that case, hardware ereaders can be adapted with ease, as you only have to look at one implementation and it's the same for everybody.

Besides, one DRM implementation is so far away in the future, we'll already be on our third or fourth device by then!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Since eRreader was designed for PDAs, this works fine. But no dedicated ebook readers use the eReader format, possibly because the unlock mechanism doesn't go well with the firmware. It's basically "enter password to open book," with your CC# as the password.

That would work just fine with many current devices. Eg, the Sony has hardware buttons for the numbers 0-9, and the CyBook has a numeric entry "soft keyboard" which is currently used by the "goto page x" function.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Which other electronic media distribution industry can you name that has found a DRM method that satisfies both customer and producer?

iTunes. Their DRM method is unobtrusive and works well. It doesn't inconvenience the user, and gives the user perfectly reasonable rights - eg they can turn their music to an audio CD.

[pdurrant]

Earlier this year Apple finally persuaded all major music publishers to drop DRM. There's no longer any DRM on newly purchased music at the iTunes store.

I do agree that iTunes DRM was probably the least offensive, but still had the long-term drawbacks of relying on a remote server to authenticate on new machines.

Originally Posted by HarryT

iTunes. Their DRM method is unobtrusive and works well. It doesn't inconvenience the user, and gives the user perfectly reasonable rights - eg they can turn their music to an audio CD.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

iTunes. Their DRM method is unobtrusive and works well. It doesn't inconvenience the user, and gives the user perfectly reasonable rights - eg they can turn their music to an audio CD.

Could you transfer the music to your non-Apple phone?

[Abecedary]

Originally Posted by tompe

Could you transfer the music to your non-Apple phone?

Apple isn't putting DRM on their music anymore. And the file format they've used all along (sans DRM) is AAC, which is an MPEG standard. Many devices other than iPods/iPhones support it (for instance, my Samsung phone I bought 4 years ago supports it). So, when dealing with music purchased since they dumped DRM, the answer is yes.