Onyx Boox as monitor

[mdp]

Originally Posted by stevebrown153

The 1st version of Mod Monitor worked well but with the 2nd and 3rd, I cannot use Boox as a touchpad. Do I need to install something else on my laptop?

Hectic times, sorry.
It should be a bad setup - the last version especially was made to implement touchscreen functions. Maybe check that you are using the last app and the last script.

Originally Posted by stevebrown153

2. Is there by any chance can you modify (or show me how to change it because I have no idea about coding) Full Refresh interval time? Since Onyx set it fixed to 5 mins but 30s or 1 min shall be great for A2 mode

The mod was made to have touch controlled refresh.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by artempav

I use your mod-3. In normal mode mouse movement for me much better than in a2 mode, because in normal mode mouse movement more smooth. But problem that font quality is a bit muddy in normal mode. And for me much easy to work with fonts in a2 mode, but mouse movement makes me nervous in a2. Can it be change somehow?

The desktop-OS resolution should be set to the tablet resolution. But since Onyx made a mess of it for some reason (the resolution using the Monitor app is not the tablet resolution), maybe you are better set with VNC.

[desk7]

When you use Onyx Boox Max 2 as monitor, is the touchscreen working? And the pen? If so, does Windows10 recognize the pen as an active pen?

[JohnDae]

Dors the Boox Note work also as monitor using VNC and USB?

[franzli]

Originally Posted by JohnDae

Dors the Boox Note work also as monitor using VNC and USB?

Yes, just have look up earlier in this thread. Mdp has the nicest solutionz

[JohnDae]

Is anyone actually using the Note or Max 2 as a monitor for writing/programming using VNC?

I think the Dasung pro would be better as a monitor than Max 2 as the price difference isn't huge, but I'm also considering the Note as it is a lot cheaper and might even be faster than Max 2.

So is the input lag and mouse movement smothness good enough to work with it?

[2new]

I decided to take another shot at enhancing my laptop to ereader streamer and made the attached video. This works in any ereader web browser as long as you can get to the host computer. The demo has my nook glowlight plus with a2 mode and it only supports 2.4 GHz networks. This will likely be faster for onyx readers especially over reverse adb. The images are about 20kb. It has endpoints for mouse clicks, but expects the keyboard to be used from host computer. With these caveats it works.

Can anyone tell my of onyx HDMI is faster? It's hard to tell from some videos.

I will likely buy a new ereader soon since Barnes and Noble are not going to update my ereader anymore.

[plusz]

Originally Posted by 2new

Can anyone tell my of onyx HDMI is faster? It's hard to tell from some videos.

It's hard to tell how fast is your ereader from watching a video of a video playing on your ereader, all I know is that I would not waste any minute to watch a movie on the device

Apart from joking, I believe HDMI in A2 mode is way faster. However I don't use it for coding (and I don't see a point to use it for video). The A2 mode is quite fast but the fonts are not that crisp as they are when rendered natively by the reader. Furthermore the text is never black, and the screen background quickly become creamy gray with ghosting. Even in A2 mode refresh is too slow for working comfortably with a mouse. Sure, muscle memory tend to do the correct movement but you have to wait for the final visual confirmation, and always do a correction slowly as there's always some overshoot or undershoot with your aiming. It's ok to target large buttons with a mouse but not to do text manipulation or complex menu navigation.

If you really want to use it as a monitor, check the monitor thread for the modified monitor apk. It lets you do a screen refresh by a tap which is a must have. If I remember correctly Dasung has a physical button for refresh.

In my opinion, I could recommend it for work only as a standalone device, running native terminal app which in turn can do ssh to your workstation. Forget about GUI terminals (VNC, RDP, etc.) and mouse workflow. Of course the device could be quite useful as an ancillary monitor to display mostly static documentation, when you work on tutorials, etc. but it means that the static content perhaps can be side-loaded to the reader or accessed via the built in browser which gives you much better experience.

The HDMI is a marketing gimmick. People put a lot of hopes to make use of it but I seriously doubt there's a wide adoption amongst the owners. A nice passive display is not there yet, certainly it is not this device.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by 2new

Can anyone tell my of onyx HDMI is faster?

Your video seems to show approximately 5.5fps.
On the Max2 we counted approximately 6.5fps. It's slightly faster.

Originally Posted by 2new

It's hard to tell from some videos

We counted... Some of us would not bet that perceptual real-world experience would go against the numbers (unless you have a light trapping, motion-blur effect giving layer on top of the display...).

Originally Posted by 2new

laptop to ereader streamer ... especially over reverse adb

I see you are posting in the Monitor thread, but - any specific reason why not going native? (Although I can think of storage management issues.)
By the way: if you stream the video, you may be interested in doing that with some dot persistence optimization. The Floyd-Steinberg dithering algorithm that Onyx uses(/d?) on A2 is terrible for video, very costly in battery terms.

Originally Posted by plusz

all I know is that I would not waste any minute to watch a movie on the device

It is always reassuring to know that not everyone in the world has or had a thing for your wife.

Originally Posted by plusz

A2 mode is way faster

That in the video is A2, you cannot go that fast with precise waveforms (yet).

Originally Posted by plusz

In my opinion, I could recommend it for work only as a standalone device, running native terminal app which in turn can do ssh to your workstation. Forget about GUI terminals (VNC, RDP, etc.) and mouse workflow

And if you need to use VisiCalc? You seem to be missing the whole point.

Originally Posted by plusz

The HDMI is a marketing gimmick. People put a lot of hopes to make use of it but I seriously doubt there's a wide adoption amongst the owners

Maybe (rhetorical 'maybe') because Onyx implemented it badly - for example, but chiefly, forcing a blur by imposing a resolution which does not match the real display (not to mention forcing A2 mode).

Originally Posted by plusz

A nice passive display is not there yet, certainly it is not this device.

The Max2 can be very good for some tasks, even natively. It could be even better with proper software. That is why the Monitor thread exists.

[elementarythree]

If you need a small monitor you can get one for the fraction of the cost (although compared to bigger monitor still expensive) with standard LCD technology. They will do better with graphical content, alone because they have colors and refresh at 60 Hz, of course. If you shop carefully for a high resolution they will also have an incredibly sharp picture because of high DPI, even making tiny fonts readable. I have such a screen at work. They're basically tablet screens attached to a chip that drives them and takes different (HDMI etc.) inputs in a monitor-esque case. I guess they're mostly expensive (still not nearly as expensive as eink) because there isn't a huge demand. Nice to have though. 1080p at 12" looks very sharp.

The eInk screen on the Onyx Max 2 is nice for text and static graphics that don't require color. The biggest issue I have with the Max 2 is that Onyx put it together poorly. From the unsafe kernel (has a years-old vulnerability that is very easy to exploit - probably only one of many and it's android will probably have tons of security issues too - the Max 2 is not safe to use on the internet, frankly) to this bizarre resolution thing with their monitor app. For what it costed it's almost insulting, really. Then there's the simple engineering stuff. The case feels and looks kinda cheap for a device that expensive. The power button and HDMI connector at the bottom. All that small stuff that adds up. The buggy ereader app. I have an old Sony PRS-350 which feels much nicer and I use mainly for reading. I bought it used for 40$. (and a new battery for 10$) It only does ebooks. No wlan, no other stuff. It just works. (With the Max 2 I really learned to dislike non-community-maintained manufacturer android)

The specs look good on paper but as it is often with Android-ware, the reality is often different because of the mess that is Android. If this was a normal tablet (not eink) the condition of the software for the price would be unacceptable.

I found it works best either with running native Linux text interface apps in termux (with a bitmapped font you can set A2 mode without the font suffering quality loss because there's no aliasing) or via VNC displaying content passively. The SoC has enough pull to make that usable. You can also hack the device a little (with rooting) and kill the android stuff and run GNU/Linux distro out of a chroot enviroment. It's complicated, though.

The other way I found for me is a "reverse adb" telnet/ssh connection via usb and sharing a GNU screen session. Also kinda hackish. You can do some scripting with the Termux API and for example open pictures and pdf files and what not via commands typed from your computer. As primary, normal monitor, this thing is not a joy, alone because of the stupid resolution problem. I wonder if the Dasung fares batter but from what little I heard, it doesn't really. Apparently it needs a (crash-prone) windows/linux driver to work, which frankly is astonishing if it's true. Chinese drive-by engineering at it's finest, if true.

All in all, IMHO the Onyx is a serviceable screen and even computer if you can live with the shortcomings, but after using that thing now for a while, I have to say it's not good. It's basically a cheap Chinese Android tablet with an expensive screen that feels like it has been designed to look good on paper. (I also haven't checked either but I guess in typical chinese crapdroid fashion, they haven't released the kernel sources in direct violation of the license, as it is par on course with chinese companies like this)

That all being said this is my perspective, other people care much less about security and up-to-date kernels and free software and stuff. This is me. It bothers me to have a computer that's locked down and at a dead-end like this. I know a lot of people don't mind.

There is no good eink monitor, sadly.

(Notice I haven't mentioned screen speed/modes etc. at all, I frankly don't see them as a problem like other people seem to do, that's just the nature of eink. I find framerates of ~5-6 FPS for text and semi-static graphics not a problem, you honestly get used to it)

[mdp]

Originally Posted by elementarythree

If you need a small monitor you can get one for the fraction of the cost

For that matter, the same tricks here can be used to hook a system to an OLED screen, and it's a whole new visual experience. Of course, a technology still very limited by environmental light...

Originally Posted by elementarythree

The biggest issue I have with the Max 2 is that Onyx put it together poorly. [...] I have an old Sony PRS-350 which feels much nicer [...] It just works

The "five font sizes including a few sight-impaired-big ones will be plenty" (for the skimmers: two or three font sizes real option) device? Oh my. Sony's PRS is the proof we need control - to take it and to be given the ability to take control. To fix the fumblings of aristocratic producers with a lineage so long that it remains confusing to see how the just-pulled-themselves-out-of-the-muddy-land Onyx seem to spit saliva less frequently during speech in front of the Queen. «It just works», just not the way you may reasonably expect it.

(By the way: mine came with a silverly frame, which is exactly what you want to use in exactly the environment you expect to use it, to read Sacher-Masoch and "How to use NLP to win a political general election".)

Originally Posted by elementarythree

If this was a normal tablet (not eink) the condition of the software for the price would be unacceptable

Of course the display cost being most of the price... ; )
(Though for fairness I remember some fellows unconvinced of the price/quality ratio after subtraction of the display cost.)

Originally Posted by elementarythree

The specs look good on paper but as it is often with Android-ware, the reality is often different because of the mess that is Android

I thought one of the goals of Android was battery optimization: do we have data on how a Linux Desktop fares against it?

Originally Posted by elementarythree

You can also hack the device a little (with rooting) and kill the android stuff and run GNU/Linux distro out of a chroot enviroment. It's complicated, though

Did not you have a serious performance hit, especially with X11? Have you managed to try Wayland?

Originally Posted by elementarythree

Chinese drive-by engineering at it's finest

Without any offense meant to the Chinese (the burdens of history on society are crucial here), but really not unrelatedly, yesterday I was telling myself how refreshing the experience with Epson is being. "Ahh, a well thought device where the project writers ask themselves the mandatory question, «What may I want it to have when using it...»".

Originally Posted by elementarythree

a serviceable screen and even computer [...] It bothers me to have a computer that's locked down and at a dead-end like this

Locked down, where true, that is a sin and a crime. But I would not say it is at a "dead-end". Many of those spaces for improvement can still be filled. Surely, with work on the consumer's side - that's the way it is, be contented or strive (or both).

[elementarythree]

Originally Posted by mdp

For that matter, the same tricks here can be used to hook a system to an OLED screen, and it's a whole new visual experience. Of course, a technology still very limited by environmental light...

I was interested in a while in OLED screens but I haven't really found anything practical enough. Everything you can get is either too expensive or way too small. Similar to eink, I guess. I was even thinking about a 6-7" eInk screen hooked to an ARM SBC as sort of makeshift monitor/really low powered work station/digital typewriter. (6-7" is small but for text only, I think you might get used to it) You can get these small waveshare eInk screens for reasonable amounts of money and there's enough documentation to whip up a TTY. I'm just concerned their refresh speed might not be up to par and the overhead might be a bit too much for really weak SBCs I'd intent on using. Then again I've seen such projects so maybe you could make it work. I don't know. Also it's not like the Max 2 doesn't work in that role, it absolutely does. I even managed with GNU parallel to write batch scripts doing image conversion from my PC, utilizing the SoC in the Max.

Originally Posted by mdp

The "five font sizes including a few sight-impaired-big ones will be plenty" (for the skimmers: two or three font sizes real option) device? Oh my. Sony's PRS is the proof we need control - to take it and to be given the ability to take control. To fix the fumblings of aristocratic producers with a lineage so long that it remains confusing to see how the just-pulled-themselves-out-of-the-muddy-land Onyx seem to spit saliva less frequently during speech in front of the Queen. «It just works», just not the way you may reasonably expect it.

(By the way: mine came with a silverly frame, which is exactly what you want to use in exactly the environment you expect to use it, to read Sacher-Masoch and "How to use NLP to win a political general election".)

I have the silvery one, I can just say that I like it. The new battery lasts forever . (another thing you can't say about the Max 2, although I admit the comparison isn't fair _at all_) I've noticed that with eReader bigger isn't necessarily better, the Onyx is really uncomfortable to hold for me for long amounts of time. The Sony has exactly the right size for me to lie down on the couch or in bed and read a little, I also found a nice LED reading lamp with warm light which clips to it perfectly. I don't have any problem with the font size, even the smallest one, but I can see how that could be a problem. I personally was more worried the page turning you have to do often on 5" would bother me, but it really doesn't. I can just slightly touch the side of the screen with my thumb. It happens automatically and I don't really think about it anymore. I like the whole simplicity of it. Gets recognized as an USB drive you can just copy files to and no online garbage. I also have to admit I don't really see it as a computer the way I see the Max 2, and therefore don't have the same demands on it, although it of course technically is. That being said I installed PRS+ on it and it brings a few goodies, like a calculator and ways of changing the fonts of ebooks to your own, but I haven't used that stuff much. I wonder how Adobe Garamond Pro would look on it...

Also when I changed the battery to my luck I found it to be very easy as the device has easy-to-access screws. There's some glue but I think it was only used in manufacturing to make putting it together easier. It's not really needed. The Max 2 has no visible screws and I have the feeling the thing is glued together (as it doesn't make croaking noises when you press the frame which would indicate some kind of plastic clamping) which might mean you can take it apart but never put it together again which in turn again would mean you can never replace the battery. I might be wrong though.

Originally Posted by mdp

Of course the display cost being most of the price... ; )
(Though for fairness I remember some fellows unconvinced of the price/quality ratio after subtraction of the display cost.)

The display is expensive, no doubt. It makes the price sorta acceptable. A device of that class with that kind of quality with a normal LCD display would not sell.

Originally Posted by mdp

I thought one of the goals of Android was battery optimization: do we have data on how a Linux Desktop fares against it?

I meant more a mess in "weird frankenstein kernel" and "will never receive meaningful updates" kind of way. Android has a huge conceptual problem with that. There are constantly security issues found that will not be patched in a majority of devices because nobody maintains that particular devices' kernel or android version anymore. Even the Asus Tinkerboard I have, (small SBC with the same SoC as the Max 2) doesn't get any Android updates and is already not safe to use on the internet with Android anymore. (with Linux it mostly is as the SoC enjoys mainline support - for now) The manufacturers push these things out and just do not give a crap about long time support. Onyx and the ancient kernel/Android Version they use don't either. They seem to be a lot more concerned with integrating an online shop. This is a problem with ARM devices in general and with Android in particular.

Originally Posted by mdp

Did not you have a serious performance hit, especially with X11? Have you managed to try Wayland?

Yeah, frankly X11 is awful on it. Even with the blob Mali drivers which do not work well with X11. I once found a comment on Github from one of the people involved that basically admitted that the X11 drivers of Mali are awful and will never get fixed as they focus on Wayland now. (see above re: support of manufacturers) There are open source Mali drivers in the works but they have been "just around the corner" for about two years now and frankly, I'm not holding my breath anymore. Would not help in case of the Max 2 anyways. I haven't tried Wayland but I know from my Tinkerboard that Mali works way better with Wayland.

Originally Posted by mdp

Without any offense meant to the Chinese (the burdens of history on society are crucial here), but really not unrelatedly, yesterday I was telling myself how refreshing the experience with Epson is being. "Ahh, a well thought device where the project writers ask themselves the mandatory question, «What may I want it to have when using it...»".

These chinese ARM devices are meant to be sold and to be cheap, not to last or be used for long. Humanity is one day gonna pay the price for that particular shortsightedness.

Originally Posted by mdp

Locked down, where true, that is a sin and a crime. But I would not say it is at a "dead-end". Many of those spaces for improvement can still be filled. Surely, with work on the consumer's side - that's the way it is, be contented or strive (or both).

You're way more optimistic than me there. The Max 2 Pro (or whatever it is called) apparently has different firmware and I'd not be surprised if Onyx just silently stops pushing firmware updates for the Max 2 and just expects everyone to buy The New Thing(tm) (see above). These companies can't earn money with supporting old devices. I also doubt they'll ever unlock the bootloader or make it otherwise possible for people to gain control of the device. Stallman is right in decrying this kind of stuff, as weird as he is.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by elementarythree

I was interested in a while in OLED screens but I haven't really found anything practical enough

If you have a mobile device with an OLED screen, and for some reason you benefit from using that for an alien Operating System, VNC can be straightforward enough.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

I was even thinking about a 6-7" eInk screen hooked to an ARM SBC

Where the effort becomes really interesting - where the range of applications increase - is with big screens. But one will also want them to be very portable - so the tablet form is great and should be exploited.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

I have the silvery one, I can just say that I like it. [...] I installed PRS+ on it and it brings a few goodies, like a calculator and ways of changing the fonts of ebooks to your own

I also "like" the PRS, but when we mention engineering effort and quality assurance, and commons sense and basic wits and "this is a joke, right?", the PRS has three font sizes, plus two very big ones. THREE, plus two, out of, say, the cardinality of a decently populated array from element "6" to element "72". It means that the people involved in the project were a mix of flatly-waved responsible for action and hunchmen responsible for inaction. And there is talk about the Chinese expertise in QA? I have the PRS+ firmware, and even that could not fix the font size selector... The hacker patched the problem in such a twisted, indirect way, as forced by the original mess, it definitely (really, not rhetorically) looks like the tracks of evolution on biological structures - just, as a difference, ineffective.
(And you are incidentally reminding me that only the custom firmware introduced the ability to upload fonts.)
This is why you want to avoid appliances: you cannot trust project teams. You want to have the actual freedom to fix their errors. That is my point. Dummyboy makes a branching loop, you did the best you could now let's see what we can do, Dummyboy makes a toaster, I want to be entitled to sue for moral damages. "As is" is very different from locked to unlocked.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

with eReader bigger isn't necessarily better, the Onyx is really uncomfortable to hold for me for long

That is a generic principle, it is valid for books: be it the "Little Book of Calm" or a leather-bound encyclopedia, a Polaroid or a framed canvas, surely through ventral brain's cybernetics + frontal brain's storytelling (plus the "wait a moment there" from sandwiched limbic) the reader will have prepared supports in terms of pillows, stands, lamarckianly evolved belly etc. Before the AR set, I used a sack to rest the book-holding arm during reading devoted walks.
You must mean that you read in the Onyx in public transport: well, give it some quality time, and exceptions will remain exceptions.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

Even the Asus Tinkerboard I have, (small SBC with the same SoC as the Max 2) doesn't get any Android updates and is already not safe to use on the internet with Android anymore [...] This is a problem with ARM devices in general and with Android in particular

I remained inattentive to the scene for a couple of years, but I remained with the notion that even Linux itself was faulted in the times when Linus was working abroad. (And what about the hardware?)
All small and big good reasons for airgapping the personal and distrusting the connected.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

You're way more optimistic than me there [...] I'd not be surprised if Onyx just silently stops pushing firmware updates for the Max 2

I only meant that functionality can be extended at Android's user level. I did not mean that the structural base can be improved. Unless they change policy and release a really open firmware.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

just expects everyone to buy The New Thing(tm)

Odd expectation, I unfortunately passed on these recent batches (Nova etc.), first time in five years. A niche market provider (EPD based tablets) and mass market policies (crippled hardware), I am not sure about the combination.

Originally Posted by elementarythree

These companies can't earn money with supporting old devices. I also doubt they'll ever unlock the bootloader or make it otherwise possible for people to gain control of the device. Stallman is right in decrying this kind of stuff, as weird as he is.

I think there is a problem of lack of quality oriented competition. For very many years, I have been checking in sets of uncountable products, in many paramount realms. The vast majority of them basically the same. All the cars but a few appear to be now Hyundai, under other logos. Matching the requirements, barely a handful of models out of a thousand - but through constraint relaxation. It is like there are Paretian patterns in products: the decent or appetible ones are deviations away, and paradoxically (given the flood of useless products) the total numbers are not even so big to allow that the optimal products effectively exist.

[2new]

Here is another test with text using a modified Heckbert approach. Much faster, each image is about 2k using png format. My ereader only has 2.4ghz wifi so I can't test reverse adb.

[plusz]

Originally Posted by mdp

The Max2 can be very good for some tasks, even natively. It could be even better with proper software. That is why the Monitor thread exists.

Ups, obviously, I mixed up threads, too much simultaneous reading Whilst my post was honest I hope in this thread people already know what are they doing and what to expect