Doctorow on the e-book rip-off for libraries

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by faithbw

By the time my library purchases e-books of this novel, it probably will have been out for a few months. It isn't likely that having an open license of this e-book will cannibalize sale of the novel as it will have already been available for months for purchase to individuals.

Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson remains on the New York Times bestseller list (eBook nonfiction #14) after 22 months. It still doesn't seem to be available as a English library eBook, despite being available as a Spanish eBook from libraries in 24 US states:

http://search.overdrive.com/ti/b2301...book#searchLib

The book you mentioned also seems destined for a long bestseller run.

Simon and Schuster could have idiots for executives, but, more likely, is making a research-based business decision concerning cannibalization. As a library eBook patron, I wish it wasn't so hard to borrow Simon and Schuster titles (few available, and AFAIK only through the inconvenient 3M Cloud Library). But I can't say they are wrong. They need -- and I, as a nonfiction reader, need -- long-running bestsellers like Steve Jobs to make up for other outstanding titles which don't earn back the advance.

Originally Posted by faithbw

If libraries have to spend so much money buying multiple licenses for popular books it doesn't leave nearly as much for them to buy licenses for other e-books.

You don't have to do that. Before McNaughton started renting books to libraries, I doubt many libraries bought multiple copies of popular books (am I right?). Perhaps I am a little elitist in a my preferences regarding how libraries should spend their acquisitions budgets.* There always will be hard choices. Suppliers to government will always try to make a significant profit. And compared to, oh, say, Microsoft, or scientific journal vendors, Simon and Schuster profit margins are modest.

If libraries become as convenient as bookstores, author incomes, already low, will plummet. I don't see any way to get around that, or reason to blame publishers for trying to prevent it.

______________
* In my defense here, if one is needed, no library just gives the borrowing public what it wants. If it did, the magazine and video sections would be filled with pornography!

[hwlester]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I believe this is the one you mean.

That is freaking awesome.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Simon and Schuster could have idiots for executives, but, more likely, is making a research-based business decision concerning cannibalization.

The last thing I read, which was admittedly quite a while ago, had S&S and Macmillan wanting a system where they get paid each time a book is loaned. I believe both have dipped there toes into the current systems to at least try then out since then, but that may still be their stance. It may not necessarily be an unreasonable stance altogether, but with libraries having relatively fixed annual budgets it might be hard for them to manage.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by covingtoncat73

Libraries generally buy hardcovers or library bindings (extra-sturdy hardcovers).

Not everywhere. Most of the recent-release paper books I check out of my library are paperbacks, some of them mass market paperbacks. Poking back through my recent loans, the exceptions are primarily cookbooks and some larger graphic novels.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by faithbw

They're actually less expensive. Libraries tend not to pay retail price for p-books. This is one of the many reasons why libraries are not pleased about the prices they pay for e-books.

That seems strange to me. In Sweden the cost for the library for a book is much higher because they buy books in special bindings so they last longer. Or at least they used to do that (I have not visited a library in years...).

Also in Sweden the libraries have to pay $3 per loan of an ebook.

[owly]

You can still get library-bound books though not as many as you used to.

Originally Posted by tompe

That seems strange to me. In Sweden the cost for the library for a book is much higher because they buy books in special bindings so they last longer. Or at least they used to do that (I have not visited a library in years...).

Also in Sweden the libraries have to pay $3 per loan of an ebook.

[Sregener]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

The last thing I read, which was admittedly quite a while ago, had S&S and Macmillan wanting a system where they get paid each time a book is loaned.

I have no problem with that system, provided the fee is reasonable, resembles the oft-quoted cost of loaning a physical book, and can be passed on to the patron. Many libraries charge to borrow DVDs, so it is not as though a pay-per-loan system is incompatible with the library system. Users who do not want to pay the fee should still be able to borrow the physical book.

[doctorow]

Originally Posted by Sregener

I have no problem with that system, provided the fee is reasonable, resembles the oft-quoted cost of loaning a physical book, and can be passed on to the patron.

^ This exactly!

[PurpleStar]

I wouldn't pay a fee every time I check out a library book, if that's what you all are talking about. I mean the whole point of the library is so you don't have to pay, aside from the cost of the library card. Might as well buy used/cheap books if I have to pay anyway.

[cortman]

Originally Posted by PurpleStar

I wouldn't pay a fee every time I check out a library book, if that's what you all are talking about. I mean the whole point of the library is so you don't have to pay, aside from the cost of the library card. Might as well buy used/cheap books if I have to pay anyway.

You pay for the library book (and the whole library) already if you're a taxpayer in the USA. I sure wouldn't pay a dime more.

Originally Posted by PurpleStar

I wouldn't pay a fee every time I check out a library book, if that's what you all are talking about. I mean the whole point of the library is so you don't have to pay, aside from the cost of the library card. Might as well buy used/cheap books if I have to pay anyway.

I think that they're talking about the library absorbing the cost (which, in turn, is passed onto the taxpayer). Overall, I'm not opposed to a reasonable fee being charged for each person who signs out a book. The big issue is that publishers have a strange notion of reasonable fees and seem to be charging per sign-out.

Put another way: if they're charging $1 per sign out, they're charging more than I pay for many used books. If they're charging $2 per sign out, they're charging more than I pay for most used books. And that's not including the books that I pick up for free.

[BadBilly]

Originally Posted by doctorow

Thank you very much, but I consider my opinion and the opinion of others highly relevant in this discussion.

Said opinion boiling down to "Wah, wah! I don't want to pay someone for what they own." Then don't buy it or get it through other means. Libraries, being all proper and above board, have to obey the law.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by PurpleStar

I wouldn't pay a fee every time I check out a library book, if that's what you all are talking about. I mean the whole point of the library is so you don't have to pay, aside from the cost of the library card. Might as well buy used/cheap books if I have to pay anyway.

One of the libraries I used to go to charge $1 if you wanted to borrow a popular new release, and they charged to borrow VHS movies as well. I think it was $1 for three days, and $3 for a week. I borrowed these items on occasion, I figured the money was going to buy more materials for the library. I wouldn't mind paying a small fee to borrow an ebook.

[jehane]

Originally Posted by doctorow

On the other hand, although cars may eventually stop running, by then they've been resold long ago. Major rentals, like Sixt for example, keep their fleet young, since they know that the resale value of cars decreases exponentially after reaching a certain age. Do libraries have that liberty of refinancing new eBooks?

People in favor of overcharging libraries love to compare eBooks to paper books rather than looking at eBooks for what they are: a new technology. They try to preserve an old business model by introducing artificial limits. Their business model mind you. Who cares if libraries, the gateway to knowledge, draw the short straw.

I repeat: Why should libraries pay a multiple for the same eBook compared to what normal people pay, while car rentals get premium discounts when purchasing cars for their fleet?

I find it odd that you consider an ebook/pbook comparison invalid, but an ebook/car comparison perfectly valid. Especially when they are used in completely different ways, and I don't mean reading vs driving. A book in any format, is typically* used once by a user, unlike cars, which might be used multiple times by the same user.

Books are also less commodified than rental cars. An individual is unlikely to go to the car rental place and specify exactly which make and model they want (unless it's high end of course), rather, they select a type, eg medium-sized, and the car rental place will give you what *they* choose. However with books, it's unlikely that an individual will go to a library and say they want something from genre X, and leave it up to the librarian to choose something for them.

If you want to compare business models, then consider the considerable "wastage" of having books idling on shelves, even electronic ones. In the transport industry (to which car rental companies belong), such idling indicates vast overstocking and the solution would be to massively cull the excess. I am guessing you would not be supportive of such an action by libraries?

In short, I disagree that a car rental company is a valid comparison to a library.

* I think in general the number of times a book is re-read by the same person is tiny in comparison to the number to once-only reads. I read a lot, and I re-read my favourites, but the proportion of books that I re-read compared to those I don't is vanishingly small.

[BelleZora]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

One of the libraries I used to go to charge $1 if you wanted to borrow a popular new release, and they charged to borrow VHS movies as well. I think it was $1 for three days, and $3 for a week. I borrowed these items on occasion, I figured the money was going to buy more materials for the library. I wouldn't mind paying a small fee to borrow an ebook.

I would be willing to pay a fee to borrow library materials, particularly popular ebooks. However, there have been times in my life, including my first 20 or so years, when I could not pay a fee, and those were the years when I needed the library most. Public libraries should always be free for children and those who cannot afford books.

Perhaps an option to make a donation when checking out a book would be acceptable to library users.