I don't trust GoodReads - Page 6

JSWolf · 10-01-2022, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeera

This is one of the more bizarre suggestions I've ever heard. Why on earth would anyone do this?

To stop the crap people post before it's released. You cannot use the average stars for some time because they are just wrong. This would hopefully stop that.

theducks · 10-01-2022, 11:19 AM

I have no problem reviewing an actual ARC as long as it is noted ( feedback from an ARC might cause editorial changes).
But I have issue with 'reviews' that were written without reading THAT BOOK.

Authors output varies, even within series (hoo boy!).
#1) I want a Synopsis of that book.
#2) Maybe where it fits in the series if reading order is necessary
#3) Leave out all the other hype. Your Tastes are not Mine. Fine. It does not help either of us to know what we thought (taste). OTOH If I DO want to know about abysmal spell checking, format (not just ugly code). Major Flaws that should have been caught.

meeera · 10-01-2022, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

To stop the crap people post before it's released. You cannot use the average stars for some time because they are just wrong. This would hopefully stop that.

The idea of a review embargo to three weeks after publication is just utter bilge. It's never going to happen. People read on release day, people read ARCs before release day. And a bookseller-linked site banning reviews in the prime selling time for a book? Please.

I think y'all need to go get together and start your own book reviewing site with all these rules. Good luck with that.

JSWolf · 10-01-2022, 11:21 AM

Actually, I've come up with a better idea. Before the book is published, set up some ARC versions and only allow those to rated/reviewed and every other version not at all until released. The ARC versions would not count towards the ratings/reviews for the other editions but you could still have a look at them if you wanted.

MGlitch · 10-01-2022, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeera

And if you want to read reviews on a site that provides a 'verified' tag on reviews of people who have bought that book from Amazon, you can. Why are you being so doltishly insistent that other sites must also follow this exact model? If you don't like the way GR does things, don't go there.

And again (and again, and again, because I'm no longer hopeful that you'll get this), while a 'verified' tag does confirm that that person bought that book from Amazon, the LACK of a 'verified' tag DOES NOT MEAN THEY DO NOT HAVE THE BOOK. Predictive value positive is somewhat reasonable. Predictive value negative is zero.

Yes, why ever would anyone want to express why and how a service could be improved in their eyes.

Again again AGAIN AGAIN to infinitum, because you seem doltishly set on it, I never said the LACK of a verified tag meant they DID not purchase it, however the INCLUSION of such a tag DOES MEAN THE BOOK WAS PURCHASED.

Quoth · 10-01-2022, 12:53 PM

Amazon's "Verified" reviews are often for an older product, a different version or a different edition or format of a book. They are also notorious.

MGlitch · 10-01-2022, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

Amazon's "Verified" reviews are often for an older product, a different version or a different edition or format of a book. They are also notorious.

True though it’s less the case with speculative fiction and literature, even books in general, than it is for other products. Particularly products from no name brands.

meeera · 10-01-2022, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

To stop the crap people post before it's released. You cannot use the average stars for some time because they are just wrong. This would hopefully stop that.

My way of dealing with the average star rating is to ignore it. Because (a) I know how it works, and (b) I don't care what some random person thinks a book should be rated.

The GR community has hashed the star system over again and again and again. It's not going to change. All you can change is your reaction to it.

DNSB · 10-02-2022, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeera

My way of dealing with the average star rating is to ignore it. Because (a) I know how it works, and (b) I don't care what some random person thinks a book should be rated.

The GR community has hashed the star system over again and again and again. It's not going to change. All you can change is your reaction to it.

This is not about how the books are rated. It is about reviews and ratings of books that are not available to be reviewed. In most cases, books that are unlikely ever to be published. Such as a review of RAH's The Stone Pillow that was removed from GR years back.

Edit: Since you seem to be unable to comprehend the difference between reviews and ratings of books that are not published as yet (and may never be published) so the "reviewer" can not have read them and ratings and reviews of books based on ARCs or similar early releases, perhaps you should spend some time attempting to comprehend that difference.

Perhaps taking a look at Goodread's information for George R. R. Martin's The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. The first is available on Kobo, the second is available on Amazon.ca going by the supplied links.

meeera · 10-02-2022, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

This is not about how the books are rated. It is about reviews and ratings of books that are not available to be reviewed.

"(a) I know how it works." I know how GR uses star ratings: they let the user define what they mean for themselves. I know that having read the book is not required for someone to allocate it stars. I know that the book existing is not required for someone to allocate it stars. People use them for all different sorts of reasons.

I get that some people get very agitated about this tiny bit of anarchy, but it's not going to change. You can die mad about it, or just ignore it.

haertig · 10-02-2022, 12:49 PM

Amazon is full of fake reviews for products. So it's not a great surprise that an Amazon-owned entity - Goodreads - would be full of fake reviews too. It is what it is. We'll just have to start applying the standard "fake review filter". Ignore all the five star reviews. Ignore all the one star reviews. Quickly glance over what remains and see if you can find something that sounds like it was written by someone of intelligence and integrity. Not always possible to find one of these good reviews, but the game is to try.

Mostly I just ignore book reviews though. They are too subjective, too dependent on personal tastes and biases, and can be driven by an agenda as much as anything else. A three line plot summary, just to get a basic idea of what the book is about, is more useful to me. Even just keywords - example: "adventure, lost island, dinosaurs" - often do the job better than some would-be expert criticizing the author for incorrectly identifying T-Rex teeth as being 4" long rather than 3" (there are lots of reviews like that).

Terisa de morgan · 10-02-2022, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't see a need to see a book having to be owned. But it should either be marked Read or DNF before it can be reviewed. But you should not be able to add a book and then mark it finished right after that. At least 24 hours should be the minimum time.

Why not? Last J.D. Robb's and Jayne Castle's books, I've gotten them through the library and have gone directly to my ereader, without going to goodreads. I've read them (in less than those 24 hours you say, shoot me, I'm a fast reader if I like the book) and marked as read with rating in goodreads. So, for your peace of mind, I should add the book just when I get it and only add a rating after 24 hours of marking it even if I've read it before. Sorry, no way.

Terisa de morgan · 10-02-2022, 01:49 PM

And about the verified label... there was a functionality in goodreads, which allowed to mark a book as owned, the purchase date and the place where you have purchased it. It was demoted a lot of time ago, and the screen disappeared, but you could keep on adding info through the API (I coded a calibre plugin for that). As of September, all the info has disappeared, the API has been removed and the functionality has been vanished. So, I think there is not a lot of interest in ownership.
Aditionally, I don't know which is the info they get but you can link your goodreads account to your amazon account and, in theory, they sync things.

ownedbycats · 10-02-2022, 02:26 PM

I've only half-skimmed most of the thread, but does Goodreads allow reviews to be made without a star rating? I imagine a simple fix for people posting 5-star "I AM EXCITED FOR THIS BOOK!!!" on yet-unreleased ones would be to simply have an option to not have a rating.

Though I suspect there's plenty of idjits who'd do it anyways.

issybird · 10-02-2022, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

I've only half-skimmed most of the thread, but does Goodreads allow reviews to be made without a star rating?

Yes..

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10-01-2022, 11:19 AM	#77
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 28,459 Karma: 48895676 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	I have no problem reviewing an actual ARC as long as it is noted ( feedback from an ARC might cause editorial changes). But I have issue with 'reviews' that were written without reading THAT BOOK. Authors output varies, even within series (hoo boy!). #1) I want a Synopsis of that book. #2) Maybe where it fits in the series if reading order is necessary #3) Leave out all the other hype. Your Tastes are not Mine. Fine. It does not help either of us to know what we thought (taste). OTOH If I DO want to know about abysmal spell checking, format (not just ugly code). Major Flaws that should have been caught.

10-01-2022, 11:21 AM	#79
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 69,818 Karma: 116924219 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Actually, I've come up with a better idea. Before the book is published, set up some ARC versions and only allow those to rated/reviewed and every other version not at all until released. The ARC versions would not count towards the ratings/reviews for the other editions but you could still have a look at them if you wanted.

10-01-2022, 12:53 PM	#81
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 7,297 Karma: 65000001 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle	Amazon's "Verified" reviews are often for an older product, a different version or a different edition or format of a book. They are also notorious.

10-02-2022, 12:49 PM	#86
haertig Wizard Posts: 1,556 Karma: 22523942 Join Date: Sep 2017 Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26	Amazon is full of fake reviews for products. So it's not a great surprise that an Amazon-owned entity - Goodreads - would be full of fake reviews too. It is what it is. We'll just have to start applying the standard "fake review filter". Ignore all the five star reviews. Ignore all the one star reviews. Quickly glance over what remains and see if you can find something that sounds like it was written by someone of intelligence and integrity. Not always possible to find one of these good reviews, but the game is to try. Mostly I just ignore book reviews though. They are too subjective, too dependent on personal tastes and biases, and can be driven by an agenda as much as anything else. A three line plot summary, just to get a basic idea of what the book is about, is more useful to me. Even just keywords - example: "adventure, lost island, dinosaurs" - often do the job better than some would-be expert criticizing the author for incorrectly identifying T-Rex teeth as being 4" long rather than 3" (there are lots of reviews like that).

10-02-2022, 01:49 PM	#88
Terisa de morgan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,975 Karma: 11238963 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Kobo Clara/Aura One/Forma,XiaoMI 5, iPad, Huawei MediaPad, YotaPhone 2	And about the verified label... there was a functionality in goodreads, which allowed to mark a book as owned, the purchase date and the place where you have purchased it. It was demoted a lot of time ago, and the screen disappeared, but you could keep on adding info through the API (I coded a calibre plugin for that). As of September, all the info has disappeared, the API has been removed and the functionality has been vanished. So, I think there is not a lot of interest in ownership. Aditionally, I don't know which is the info they get but you can link your goodreads account to your amazon account and, in theory, they sync things.

10-02-2022, 02:26 PM	#89
ownedbycats Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,164 Karma: 44162549 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	I've only half-skimmed most of the thread, but does Goodreads allow reviews to be made without a star rating? I imagine a simple fix for people posting 5-star "I AM EXCITED FOR THIS BOOK!!!" on yet-unreleased ones would be to simply have an option to not have a rating. Though I suspect there's plenty of idjits who'd do it anyways.

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