Borrowed Library book that has a "no DRM statement"

Tomk2 · 12-06-2019, 10:46 PM

I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

"The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices."

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?

Paperbackstash · 12-06-2019, 10:52 PM

I think with saying not to copy it, it would mean that lifting the DRM restriction allows you a hassle way to read it on any device you want before returning the loan.

jhowell · 12-06-2019, 10:59 PM

My assumption is that this is a boilerplate statement, meant for purchasers rather than borrowers.

Quoth · 12-07-2019, 05:29 AM

Yes. It's a statement for the retail version inserted by the publisher or indie author.
For example, Smashwords is a retailer, distributor (Apple, Kobo, B&N, etc) and also supplies to libraries. The only difference possible on the three versions is the price. Smashwords don't at all change the uploaded book, nor do they have DRM at all on any title.

Here is a different one (the lack of DRM is implied)

Quote:

Copyright conditions: All Rights Reserved, purchases may be archived securely or converted for personal use to other ebook formats. Uploading or sharing copies is violation of copyright even if the file was obtained without cost.

cfrizz · 12-08-2019, 11:01 AM

If you are backing it up on your personal machine, then you are making a copy of it which is not allowed.

pdurrant · 12-08-2019, 11:08 AM

As it's a library book, I don't think you should keep it beyond the time you have it borrowed from the library. If you need it for longer, renew the loan.

Quoth · 12-08-2019, 02:04 PM

You certainly are breaking copyright to copy any library item. It doesn't matter if it's paper, electronic, an LP, CD, DVD, Cassette. Or what the title page / introduction has on it.
It's only loaned.
Whether or not it has DRM or awkward to copy (paper, BluRay) is irrelevant.

DNSB · 12-08-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomk2

I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

<no DRM boilerplate removed>

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place?

No. It is a borrowed book and you should not be keeping a copy after the loan period even if only for your personal use. The DRM statement is intended for purchasers who buy for the book and not borrowers who do not pay (at least, not directly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomk2

I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?

A very bad idea. Oddly for someone who routinely removes DRM from my purchases, I find the idea of removing DRM from borrowed books to be unacceptable. Read it when you borrow it and renew it if you need more time.

MGlitch · 12-08-2019, 02:33 PM

It’d also break any agreements you made with the library on the loan of the book.

Library DRM is no harder to remove than most retailers DRM. However even those who create the tools to enable the masses to remove DRM have spoken out against those tools being used on library books. It stands to reason that a publisher not using DRM with a library book should still be treated as only a temporary ownership. Any preservation of the book post the return date would be a violation of the trust placed in you.

binaryhermit · 12-08-2019, 04:09 PM

I know my overdrive-powered library has (a few) books available in DRM-free epub format. Yes, books available for loan in that format.

JSWolf · 12-08-2019, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomk2

I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

"The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices."

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?

That may have been copied from the description. I've seen it before on eBook from the library that do have DRM. There are some that don't have DRM. But you'll known when you go to borrow as you'll get a choice of ePub or Open ePub.

Tomk2 · 12-09-2019, 10:12 AM

I read the first chapter and got interested, so now I will just finish it over the next few days and return it.

I went through the overdrive user agreement and didnt find any terms that prohibited making a copy on my personal devices, at least to my comprehension. I found that interesting. I assumed there would be? I remember the early days of audiobooks, when the audio files had no DRM for use on an ipod. There was a specific mention in overdrive that it was the users responsibility to delete the file after the loan period expired.

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leebase · 12-09-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomk2

I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

"The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices."

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?

Is it ethical to check out a music cd from the library....rip to mp3's that you keep...and return the cd?

Tomk2 · 12-09-2019, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

Is it ethical to check out a music cd from the library....rip to mp3's that you keep...and return the cd?

Never got a library music cd that wasnt all scratched up to try!

But I think I have mis stated my topic by equating unethical and unacceptable with illegal. Libraries lend, not give away, so keeping it seems to be unethical. But how about illegal? I guess I dont know if it is illegal to make a copy of a borrowed book that explicitly has no DRM if it was borrowed from the library. So far I havent found personal copies expressly prohibited .

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JSWolf · 12-09-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

Is it ethical to check out a music cd from the library....rip to mp3's that you keep...and return the cd?

Can you do it? Yes. Is it ethical? NO!

12-06-2019, 10:46 PM	#1
Tomk2 Groupie Posts: 151 Karma: 123456 Join Date: Sep 2019 Device: none	Borrowed Library book that has a "no DRM statement" I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement: "The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices." So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices. What do you think?

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12-06-2019, 10:52 PM	#2
Paperbackstash Wizard Posts: 1,653 Karma: 20102554 Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Central Florida Device: Oasis 3, PW 3 & 5, Fire HD 8 & 10	I think with saying not to copy it, it would mean that lifting the DRM restriction allows you a hassle way to read it on any device you want before returning the loan.

12-06-2019, 10:59 PM	#3
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,062 Karma: 91577715 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	My assumption is that this is a boilerplate statement, meant for purchasers rather than borrowers.

12-08-2019, 11:01 AM	#5
cfrizz Wizard Posts: 1,569 Karma: 36389706 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Quincy, MA Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite	If you are backing it up on your personal machine, then you are making a copy of it which is not allowed.

12-08-2019, 11:08 AM	#6
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,893 Karma: 315126578 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	As it's a library book, I don't think you should keep it beyond the time you have it borrowed from the library. If you need it for longer, renew the loan.

12-08-2019, 02:04 PM	#7
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,933 Karma: 103895653 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	You certainly are breaking copyright to copy any library item. It doesn't matter if it's paper, electronic, an LP, CD, DVD, Cassette. Or what the title page / introduction has on it. It's only loaned. Whether or not it has DRM or awkward to copy (paper, BluRay) is irrelevant.

12-08-2019, 02:33 PM	#9
MGlitch Wizard Posts: 2,855 Karma: 22003124 Join Date: Aug 2014 Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2	It’d also break any agreements you made with the library on the loan of the book. Library DRM is no harder to remove than most retailers DRM. However even those who create the tools to enable the masses to remove DRM have spoken out against those tools being used on library books. It stands to reason that a publisher not using DRM with a library book should still be treated as only a temporary ownership. Any preservation of the book post the return date would be a violation of the trust placed in you.

12-08-2019, 04:09 PM	#10
binaryhermit Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,732 Karma: 20469902 Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Lockport, IL Device: Kindle PW4, Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition	I know my overdrive-powered library has (a few) books available in DRM-free epub format. Yes, books available for loan in that format.

12-09-2019, 10:12 AM	#12
Tomk2 Groupie Posts: 151 Karma: 123456 Join Date: Sep 2019 Device: none	I read the first chapter and got interested, so now I will just finish it over the next few days and return it. I went through the overdrive user agreement and didnt find any terms that prohibited making a copy on my personal devices, at least to my comprehension. I found that interesting. I assumed there would be? I remember the early days of audiobooks, when the audio files had no DRM for use on an ipod. There was a specific mention in overdrive that it was the users responsibility to delete the file after the loan period expired. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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