Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-06-2019, 11:46 PM   #1
Tomk2
Connoisseur
Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.
 
Posts: 98
Karma: 102324
Join Date: Sep 2019
Device: none
Borrowed Library book that has a "no DRM statement"

I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

"The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices."

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?
Tomk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 11:52 PM   #2
Paperbackstash
Addict
Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Paperbackstash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Paperbackstash's Avatar
 
Posts: 340
Karma: 6000000
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Central Florida
Device: Kindles. See Signature for Info.
I think with saying not to copy it, it would mean that lifting the DRM restriction allows you a hassle way to read it on any device you want before returning the loan.
Paperbackstash is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-06-2019, 11:59 PM   #3
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,278
Karma: 31883773
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
My assumption is that this is a boilerplate statement, meant for purchasers rather than borrowers.
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 06:29 AM   #4
FrustratedReader
Ancient Sceptic
FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
FrustratedReader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,050
Karma: 6543210
Join Date: Jun 2017
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Yes. It's a statement for the retail version inserted by the publisher or indie author.
For example, Smashwords is a retailer, distributor (Apple, Kobo, B&N, etc) and also supplies to libraries. The only difference possible on the three versions is the price. Smashwords don't at all change the uploaded book, nor do they have DRM at all on any title.

Here is a different one (the lack of DRM is implied)
Quote:
Copyright conditions: All Rights Reserved, purchases may be archived securely or converted for personal use to other ebook formats. Uploading or sharing copies is violation of copyright even if the file was obtained without cost.
FrustratedReader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 12:01 PM   #5
cfrizz
Wizard
cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
cfrizz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,354
Karma: 18005702
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quincy, MA
Device: Samsung Note 2, Samsung S5(use as reader) Samsung Tab A
If you are backing it up on your personal machine, then you are making a copy of it which is not allowed.
cfrizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-08-2019, 12:08 PM   #6
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,292
Karma: 240000001
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage
As it's a library book, I don't think you should keep it beyond the time you have it borrowed from the library. If you need it for longer, renew the loan.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 03:04 PM   #7
FrustratedReader
Ancient Sceptic
FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FrustratedReader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
FrustratedReader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,050
Karma: 6543210
Join Date: Jun 2017
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
You certainly are breaking copyright to copy any library item. It doesn't matter if it's paper, electronic, an LP, CD, DVD, Cassette. Or what the title page / introduction has on it.
It's only loaned.
Whether or not it has DRM or awkward to copy (paper, BluRay) is irrelevant.
FrustratedReader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 03:26 PM   #8
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,654
Karma: 31932673
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura One, Aura H2O, Aura HD, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomk2 View Post
I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

<no DRM boilerplate removed>

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place?
No. It is a borrowed book and you should not be keeping a copy after the loan period even if only for your personal use. The DRM statement is intended for purchasers who buy for the book and not borrowers who do not pay (at least, not directly).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomk2 View Post
I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?
A very bad idea. Oddly for someone who routinely removes DRM from my purchases, I find the idea of removing DRM from borrowed books to be unacceptable. Read it when you borrow it and renew it if you need more time.
DNSB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 03:33 PM   #9
MGlitch
Wizard
MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MGlitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,630
Karma: 6138582
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma
It’d also break any agreements you made with the library on the loan of the book.

Library DRM is no harder to remove than most retailers DRM. However even those who create the tools to enable the masses to remove DRM have spoken out against those tools being used on library books. It stands to reason that a publisher not using DRM with a library book should still be treated as only a temporary ownership. Any preservation of the book post the return date would be a violation of the trust placed in you.
MGlitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 05:09 PM   #10
binaryhermit
Wizard
binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.binaryhermit ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
binaryhermit's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,401
Karma: 3589040
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lockport, IL
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3rd gen, so-called "All-New Kindle" (AKA 10th gen)
I know my overdrive-powered library has (a few) books available in DRM-free epub format. Yes, books available for loan in that format.
binaryhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 06:46 PM   #11
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 55,052
Karma: 51405990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomk2 View Post
I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

"The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices."

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?
That may have been copied from the description. I've seen it before on eBook from the library that do have DRM. There are some that don't have DRM. But you'll known when you go to borrow as you'll get a choice of ePub or Open ePub.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 11:12 AM   #12
Tomk2
Connoisseur
Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.
 
Posts: 98
Karma: 102324
Join Date: Sep 2019
Device: none
I read the first chapter and got interested, so now I will just finish it over the next few days and return it.

I went through the overdrive user agreement and didnt find any terms that prohibited making a copy on my personal devices, at least to my comprehension. I found that interesting. I assumed there would be? I remember the early days of audiobooks, when the audio files had no DRM for use on an ipod. There was a specific mention in overdrive that it was the users responsibility to delete the file after the loan period expired.




Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Tomk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 11:49 AM   #13
leebase
Karma Kameleon
leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.leebase ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
leebase's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,601
Karma: 21015146
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomk2 View Post
I borrowed a book from the library that has the following statement:

"The author and publisher have provided this e-book to you without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices. This e-book is for your personal use only. You may not print or post this e-book, or make this e-book publicly available in any way. You may not copy, reproduce, or upload this e-book, other than to read it on one of your personal devices."

So, does that mean that it is ethical and acceptable to back up the borrowed library ebook on your computer for your personal use? Or is this a violation of the implied use agreement by borrowing the book in the first place? I had an interest in downloading the book and reading it later over the long weekends of the upcoming holidays, or I can read it in the next 14 days and let it be removed from my devices.

What do you think?
Is it ethical to check out a music cd from the library....rip to mp3's that you keep...and return the cd?
leebase is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 12:03 PM   #14
Tomk2
Connoisseur
Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.Tomk2 knows the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.
 
Posts: 98
Karma: 102324
Join Date: Sep 2019
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
Is it ethical to check out a music cd from the library....rip to mp3's that you keep...and return the cd?
Never got a library music cd that wasnt all scratched up to try!

But I think I have mis stated my topic by equating unethical and unacceptable with illegal. Libraries lend, not give away, so keeping it seems to be unethical. But how about illegal? I guess I dont know if it is illegal to make a copy of a borrowed book that explicitly has no DRM if it was borrowed from the library. So far I havent found personal copies expressly prohibited .


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Last edited by Tomk2; 12-09-2019 at 12:13 PM.
Tomk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 01:20 PM   #15
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 55,052
Karma: 51405990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
Is it ethical to check out a music cd from the library....rip to mp3's that you keep...and return the cd?
Can you do it? Yes. Is it ethical? NO!
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
borrowed book from the library Cbl Conversion 1 05-24-2013 07:06 PM
Borrowed from Kindle Prime Library gal_amy Reading Recommendations 0 04-13-2013 09:45 PM
Returning Borrowed Library Books NiaTrue enTourage Archive 42 02-23-2011 03:07 AM
Borrowed ebooks from library and ... jharrison Sony Reader 17 12-09-2009 02:32 AM
Library Journal started a 'most borrowed' book list Colin Dunstan Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 0 06-17-2004 03:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:51 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.