Ebook Membership - Page 5

elcreative · 02-21-2011, 08:23 PM

You're still missing my point... you can't/don't predict the way that life is going to go... choose the renting/cloud option , get dealt a raw deal and you've got nothing because the actual digital material (whatever it is) doesn't belong to you... if it's on my computer/reader/DVD/Hard Disk then it's mine regardless of what may happen bar total disaster...

Renting/cloud, it's all the same, back in someone else's control whereas the whole point of modern computing came about as Personal Computing to remove the power from the high priests of the mainframe... now we're blithely handing it back...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anke Wehner

Uh, nobody is arguing that you should be unable to buy books if you want to.

More like, the option to read an ebook by "renting" for a low sum, rather than shilling out the full sales price and if you don't like the book being stuck with a file you can't resell, might be attractive for the kind of voracious reader who read most books they read only once.

Worldwalker · 02-22-2011, 01:04 AM

We're not handing it back now ... we handed it back when we accepted operating systems that didn't come with any form of programming language, because we're just consumers, not creators -- people who shouldn't need to write anything. That's for the high priests to do, not us lusers.

Most people don't want control, or even rights; they want convenience. And they want it despite anything it may cost them, especially any intangible thing. Look at how many people will not only trade essential liberties for a little temporary security, but will demand to be able to do so.

The price of liberty, they say, is eternal vigilance. That includes saying "hey, where's my BASIC?" and "I bought this thing already, I shouldn't have to pay for it again" Sadly, almost nobody cares.

Anke Wehner · 02-22-2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

You're still missing my point... you can't/don't predict the way that life is going to go...

Oddly, that seems to be what you are doing, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

choose the renting/cloud option , get dealt a raw deal and you've got nothing because the actual digital material (whatever it is) doesn't belong to you... if it's on my computer/reader/DVD/Hard Disk then it's mine regardless of what may happen bar total disaster...

Renting/cloud, it's all the same, back in someone else's control whereas the whole point of modern computing came about as Personal Computing to remove the power from the high priests of the mainframe... now we're blithely handing it back...

I think we are talking past each other because you keep conflating "renting" and "cloud". The whole "you can't buy an ebook, only a license to access it in the cloud" I don't like either.

I'm talking about the OPTION to rent a book, advertised as a rental rather than under the pretense of actually obtaining the book permanently, and at a price significantly lower that buying price. Complementing the option of paying for a file to download and keep "forever", not replacing it.

Libraries didn't kill bookshops, video rental didn't kill video sales, so I really don't see why rental and buying would have be mutually exclusive.

Belle2Be · 02-22-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

Actually, no. My mortgage is less than I was paying in rent, but ends up being a little more than rent when you include property taxes. But I will, at some point, stop paying on my mortgage. You pay rent forever. Buying is cheaper in the long run.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to my comment?

Belle2Be · 02-22-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

You're still missing my point... you can't/don't predict the way that life is going to go... choose the renting/cloud option , get dealt a raw deal and you've got nothing because the actual digital material (whatever it is) doesn't belong to you... if it's on my computer/reader/DVD/Hard Disk then it's mine regardless of what may happen bar total disaster...

Renting/cloud, it's all the same, back in someone else's control whereas the whole point of modern computing came about as Personal Computing to remove the power from the high priests of the mainframe... now we're blithely handing it back...

I received the story into my own personal computer, MY BRAIN. It now belongs to me regardless of my financial status, someday I'll die and it will be gone, but if I'm dead I wont need it anyway. I read a book for half the price, store it away into my "library", and move on to the next one. I'm not sure why you think that if the digital copy is gone, all is lost.

Worldwalker · 02-22-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

I'm not sure how that's relevant to my comment?

Because you said the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

But when you're renting, you're paying less for the same thing, with the exception of keeping it.

"With the exception of keeping it" matters a great deal; it's not the same thing. If you rent something, you pay for it forever but never own it. If you buy it, you don't have to pay for it again; it's yours. Yes, you have a photographic memory and you can recall and re-read any book you've read, but most of us don't, and we need that actual book around to read it again. So for us, renting is not the same thing as buying it, because "with the exception of keeping it" is a very big exception indeed.

Think about cars: you can buy a car, and keep that car until the wheels fall off. Or you can rent (lease) a car, and at the end, you've paid all that money but you don't have a car. Plus, of course, if you buy the car, it belongs to you and you can drive it for as many miles per year as you want, carry a goat in the back if you really feel you have to, and so on; if you lease it, it belongs to the lessor and you're limited in what you can actually do with it. This might not matter if you just take the kids to soccer practice, but if you have a 100-mile commute, or a need to haul a goat, that might present problems. Renting is not buying, and not comparable to buying.

Joykins · 02-22-2011, 11:19 PM

I agree that renting is not buying, only many of us are fine with renting because what we like is the experience of reading the book, not the security of ownership, most of the time. If you want to read it again, you can always borrow it again or buy it, but 80% of books I read I don't reread so I'm not too concerned about ownership when balanced with price. I always prefer to borrow books from the library to buying them unless they're my #1 authors (or I can't get them from the library as happens a lot).

Blusaber · 02-23-2011, 01:25 AM

HI

Perhaps you could model your plan along the lines that Zune uses.
I pay $15.00 per month to download as many songs and albums as I want. As long as I pay my 15 the songs remain active and I can play them if I stop the service the songs will not play if I start the service back up they will play again.

Each month I get ten credits to buy the songs I like the most and I get to keep them forever If I don't use my credits each month I lose them.

I get to try artists I would not other wise spend the money on If I like them I use my credits.

For me this plan works and I don't mind the expense some months I don't use it that much some months I do

You could allow say 6 downloads that expire and let them keep or own one of them each month food for thought

Gary

Belle2Be · 02-23-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Because you said the following:

"With the exception of keeping it" matters a great deal; it's not the same thing. If you rent something, you pay for it forever but never own it. If you buy it, you don't have to pay for it again; it's yours. Yes, you have a photographic memory and you can recall and re-read any book you've read, but most of us don't, and we need that actual book around to read it again. So for us, renting is not the same thing as buying it, because "with the exception of keeping it" is a very big exception indeed.

Think about cars: you can buy a car, and keep that car until the wheels fall off. Or you can rent (lease) a car, and at the end, you've paid all that money but you don't have a car. Plus, of course, if you buy the car, it belongs to you and you can drive it for as many miles per year as you want, carry a goat in the back if you really feel you have to, and so on; if you lease it, it belongs to the lessor and you're limited in what you can actually do with it. This might not matter if you just take the kids to soccer practice, but if you have a 100-mile commute, or a need to haul a goat, that might present problems. Renting is not buying, and not comparable to buying.

I was speaking specifically about renting ebooks. I thought that was assumed, since the thread is about renting ebooks.

Worldwalker · 02-24-2011, 12:05 AM

I tried using an analogy in the hopes of making my point clear to you. Renting is not buying. Again, you have a photographic memory, and you can store books in your mental "library"; very few people have that advantage, and we need to have those books on hand if we want to read them again. Some people only read a book once; some read the covers off of it. If you're one of the former, then it makes sense to rent your books; if you're one of the latter, it makes sense to buy them. But in neither case is renting the same thing as buying.

vrodbrad · 02-24-2011, 05:31 AM

Okay for those that think the thread is about renting ebooks, "IT IS NOT". Some have gotten off subject with "right and write". I have no more questions, and we are about done with our project. Thank you to all that did give me better insight. Talk to you all later.

Brad

Joykins · 02-24-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

I tried using an analogy in the hopes of making my point clear to you. Renting is not buying. Again, you have a photographic memory, and you can store books in your mental "library"; very few people have that advantage, and we need to have those books on hand if we want to read them again. Some people only read a book once; some read the covers off of it. If you're one of the former, then it makes sense to rent your books; if you're one of the latter, it makes sense to buy them. But in neither case is renting the same thing as buying.

For a lot of us, we like to buy some books and rent/borrow others. It depends on whether we think a particular BOOK is worth having the covers read off it, not what type of person we are, I think.

Also, back from the days I was very frugal, I would just check my favorite books out of the library repeatedly until I read the covers off of it. I didn't actually OWN many of them until about 15 years later when I had the cash.

Belle2Be · 02-24-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrodbrad

Okay for those that think the thread is about renting ebooks, "IT IS NOT". Some have gotten off subject with "right and write". I have no more questions, and we are about done with our project. Thank you to all that did give me better insight. Talk to you all later.

Brad

Sometime, just sometimes, the world does not revolve around you. You may have started the topic, but everyone else now owns it (or is renting it

). This thread is now about renting vs buying, proper English and so on. You don't have to keep readin'

Belle2Be · 02-24-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

I tried using an analogy in the hopes of making my point clear to you. Renting is not buying. Again, you have a photographic memory, and you can store books in your mental "library"; very few people have that advantage, and we need to have those books on hand if we want to read them again. Some people only read a book once; some read the covers off of it. If you're one of the former, then it makes sense to rent your books; if you're one of the latter, it makes sense to buy them. But in neither case is renting the same thing as buying.

Can you understand that in many situations, renting is just as good as buying to different people for different reasons? For instance, whether I can remember a book or not, renting would be better for me simply for space reasons. At this point in my life, I don't have the space for thousands of books. So I find my favorites, and buy them. The rest I can appreciate by renting again, or buying when I do have space.
Photography equipment is often better to rent, because while I'd love own that $3000 lens, it's not in the cards and is better to just pay $50 for a weeks use.
Car rental (or leasing), apartment rental vs buying a house, they ALL have pros and cons depending on each individual.

Worldwalker · 02-24-2011, 01:46 PM

Renting versus buying is a decision everyone makes, and it's different for different things. For example, I bought my car but rent my house.

But I don't think they're the same thing, not even the same "with the exception of keeping it." They're two totally different things, and it's disingenuous to try to pretend they're the same.

I just got a laugh out of vrodbrad and his attempts at telling everybody else what they had to do, and what they had to write about, though I was tempted to make a snarky "who died and made you mod?" comment.

02-23-2011, 01:25 AM	#68
Blusaber Enthusiast Posts: 45 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walnut CA Device: Ebookwise 1150, Sony PRS-505,JBL,Sony PRS350,Nook Color,Kindle 3	HI Perhaps you could model your plan along the lines that Zune uses. I pay $15.00 per month to download as many songs and albums as I want. As long as I pay my 15 the songs remain active and I can play them if I stop the service the songs will not play if I start the service back up they will play again. Each month I get ten credits to buy the songs I like the most and I get to keep them forever If I don't use my credits each month I lose them. I get to try artists I would not other wise spend the money on If I like them I use my credits. For me this plan works and I don't mind the expense some months I don't use it that much some months I do You could allow say 6 downloads that expire and let them keep or own one of them each month food for thought Gary Last edited by Blusaber; 02-23-2011 at 01:31 AM.

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02-22-2011, 01:04 AM	#62
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	We're not handing it back now ... we handed it back when we accepted operating systems that didn't come with any form of programming language, because we're just consumers, not creators -- people who shouldn't need to write anything. That's for the high priests to do, not us lusers. Most people don't want control, or even rights; they want convenience. And they want it despite anything it may cost them, especially any intangible thing. Look at how many people will not only trade essential liberties for a little temporary security, but will demand to be able to do so. The price of liberty, they say, is eternal vigilance. That includes saying "hey, where's my BASIC?" and "I bought this thing already, I shouldn't have to pay for it again" Sadly, almost nobody cares.

02-22-2011, 11:19 PM	#67
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,601 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	I agree that renting is not buying, only many of us are fine with renting because what we like is the experience of reading the book, not the security of ownership, most of the time. If you want to read it again, you can always borrow it again or buy it, but 80% of books I read I don't reread so I'm not too concerned about ownership when balanced with price. I always prefer to borrow books from the library to buying them unless they're my #1 authors (or I can't get them from the library as happens a lot).

02-24-2011, 12:05 AM	#70
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	I tried using an analogy in the hopes of making my point clear to you. Renting is not buying. Again, you have a photographic memory, and you can store books in your mental "library"; very few people have that advantage, and we need to have those books on hand if we want to read them again. Some people only read a book once; some read the covers off of it. If you're one of the former, then it makes sense to rent your books; if you're one of the latter, it makes sense to buy them. But in neither case is renting the same thing as buying.

02-24-2011, 05:31 AM	#71
vrodbrad Member Posts: 15 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: sony prs 350	Okay for those that think the thread is about renting ebooks, "IT IS NOT". Some have gotten off subject with "right and write". I have no more questions, and we are about done with our project. Thank you to all that did give me better insight. Talk to you all later. Brad

02-24-2011, 01:46 PM	#75
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Renting versus buying is a decision everyone makes, and it's different for different things. For example, I bought my car but rent my house. But I don't think they're the same thing, not even the same "with the exception of keeping it." They're two totally different things, and it's disingenuous to try to pretend they're the same. I just got a laugh out of vrodbrad and his attempts at telling everybody else what they had to do, and what they had to write about, though I was tempted to make a snarky "who died and made you mod?" comment.

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